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Author Topic: AMSAT-NA Ambassadors don't exist... but they do... maybe... possibly... wow...  (Read 237 times)

WE4B

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I make no apologies for being outspoken about AMSAT-NA. I am a paid member of the organization and it's my right to be critical of the organization when I view that the organization isn't providing members what they want, need and deserve.

I also make no apologies for maintaining a blog on my web site where I document the news of AMSAT-NA that you will never find anywhere else. My blog can be found at this URL:

http://we4bravo.com

As a paid member of AMSAT-NA, I am allowed to file complaints with the AMSAT-NA President. I exercise that right when I feel that it's necessary. I generally publish these complaints as I believe if you are going to complain, you should be enough of an adult to sign your name to the complaints and to not complain in secrecy. This past weekend, I filed some complaints. I suspected that I would be disappointed with any response that I might receive from the AMSAT-NA President. I just never expected what I did receive from him. It's bizarre. I've documented it on my web site and blog but thought members and potential members of AMSAT-NA could be well served by posting it here.

I recently filed three complaints with the AMSAT-NA President. Members have the right to do so and, since I'm a member, I exercised my rights. Predictably enough, the appointed AMSAT-NA President (it's a non-elected position with nothing in the bylaws that says the position has to serve members), has
chosen to deny my complaint. I knew this would happen.

Okay... here's where things get really weird. The appointed, AMSAT-NA President sent me an email telling me that there isn't such a thing as an AMSAT-NA Ambassador program:



So the AMSAT-NA President says there's not an AMSAT-NA Ambassador Program... oddly enough the AMSAT-NA web site plainly states that there IS such a program. Here's a quick phone screenshot and URL:

https://www.amsat.org/ambassador/



Well, it does appear that AMSAT-NA does have an Ambassador program. If you go back up an read what the appointed, AMSAT-NA President emailed me, you can easily see the doublespeak he spouts. First he says there isn't an Ambassador program, then he goes further to say that there are Ambassadors. He goes even further to state that the AMSAT-NA Ambassador Code of Conduct isn't a policy. It's just an "administrative document". Here's the AMSAT-NA Code of Conduct:



Wait a second, the AMSAT-NA Ambassador program doesn't exist... but it does... and there are documents governing it but these documents don't allow anyone to actually file a complaint?. I'm not the smartest guy in the world. In fact, I'm just average but I have been blessed to be able to read. I have read on the AMSAT-NA web site that members are allowed to file complaints. I have read that there is an Ambassador program. I have read that Ambassadors must agree to a Code of Conduct.

Sounds simple enough, right? I mean, I have minor children that live here at home with me that can read and understand all of this. Sadly, the appointed AMSAT-NA President has chosen to email me lies and doublespeak in an effort to keep from enforcing rules/policies of AMSAT-NA. Once again, we have more documented proof of how legacy AMSAT-NA 'leaders' choose not to enforce rules and tell lies to members.

So... the President of AMSAT-NA will state the AMSAT-NA Ambassador program doesn't exit, but it does exist... this is all SO confusing... wouldn't it be easier if AMSAT-NA leaders would just enforce the rules and policies of the organization?
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N2RRA

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Doesn’t surprise me one bit given the new normal of society’s psychology running things in today’s era. I think that AMSAT-NA president should step down and a new elected more qualified person be put in place, but I don’t think that’ll happen either given today’s new normal.

All he had to do was his job in taking the time and checking first before responding to you, but then again we’re living in a world where we can just make stuff up and change the rules on a fly with zero accountability.

Hopefully this doesn’t butt hurt anyone cause that’s not my intention of my opinion on this subject. It’s just an open and honest opinion on how to correct the situation to better our hobby and for some life style to better these programs and institutions. The only way in making that possible is through free speech and if this ain’t allowed to be critical of people who are elected to do their jobs then why bother?

Hope he sends you an email apologizing for the false Statement (fake news) and answers truthfully what he plans to do about it and satisfy the paying member. Why be a paid member if they aren’t going to provide a service that should be properly rendered?   

Then again, maybe we should get used to paying for services to organizations and elected officials in everything that don’t follow rule of law that change it when it suits them.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 01:18:44 AM by N2RRA »
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KF4HR

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Besides your organizational rants, what were your complaints?

KF4HR
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AC2EU

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    • McVey Electronics

4B:

You are almost a solitary poster on the AMSAT subject. When I asked why there wasn't more of an outcry from the membership about the various issues, you cited apathy.
Without member support, NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE!

So You know nobody cares, then why keep beating the dead horse and/or pissing in the wind?
DO you really need this aggravation in your life?   :-\

Peace!

VE3WGO

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well first of all, the President's reply is attempting to clarify that there is no Amsat-NA Ambassador program but there is an Amsat Global one.  So he is making a distinction between NA and global.  Sounds clear enough to me.

But wait... it actually isn't.

Amsat-NA calls itself Amsat,  and the website is Amsat.org, not Amsat-NA.org.   So....  when the Amsat.org page talks about Ambassadors, is it referring to a program of Amsat-global, or of Amsat-NA which also calls itself Amsat?

Saying "Amsat" in any context anywhere to anyone might be (mis)construed as referring either to the -NA or the global version of Amsat, depending on who is hearing or reading it.

Splitting hairs?  Maybe, but Amsat has to decide if it is Amsat or Amsat-NA in cases like this.

73, Ed
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K6LCS

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    • Clint's Stuff

AMSAT has an AMSAT Ambassador program. It is described on their Web site ...

www.amsat.org

Specifically ...

https://www.amsat.org/ambassador/

There are no "paid members" of "AMSAT-NA." The original poster has many problems
relating to his relationship with AMSAT. I am so sorry he brought this completely
ridiculous thread here.

Back to AMSAT Ambassadors - Think a lively, entertaining, AND informative session
on "Working the Easy Satellites With Equipment Most Hams Already Own!" at YOUR
club would be welcome? Let me know!

Clint Bradford K6LCS
AMSAT Ambassador
Email - k6lcs@amsat.org
Cell - 951-533-4984
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Clint Bradford, K6LCS
AMSAT Ambassador, ARRL Affiliated Club Coordinator
http://www.work-sat.com
909-999-SATS

WE4B

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Sigh... it never ceases to amaze me how one person can manage to take literally anything and turn it into self promotion.

The fact remains that AMSAT doesn't even know its name and uses double speak in efforts to avoid enforcing rules and policies. This is all well documented. The organization also has a handful of shills that will attempt to deflect any negative publicity.

The ARRL, over the years, has generated negative publicity but it pales in comparison to AMSAT.

I guess since self promotion is acceptable, I'll promote the blog on my web site:

http://we4bravo.com

I try to keep it updated on a fairly regular basis. At times, it can be quite eye opening and I hope all AMSAT members and prospective members take a look at it. Knowledge is power. Cheers!
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W9FIB

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I asked a question some time ago, and got a rather angry response from "the ambassador". Then blown off when I tried a second time. So to me AMSAT is dead.

Use the sats if they work. Seems like lots of failures trashing the sky. In another thread, they can't seem to even identify which object in a cluster of objects launched all at once is even theirs. That does not promote a high competence level to develop an interest or support.
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73, Stan
Travelling the world one signal at a time.

WE4B

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I asked a question some time ago, and got a rather angry response from "the ambassador". Then blown off when I tried a second time. So to me AMSAT is dead.

Yeah, he seems pretty unstable. Just last night there was discussion of this on the AMSAT-BB mailing list. If you don't subscribe to the mailing list, there is a public archive where you can view the horrendous things that were posted there. It's both scary and sad.

Use the sats if they work. Seems like lots of failures trashing the sky. In another thread, they can't seem to even identify which object in a cluster of objects launched all at once is even theirs. That does not promote a high competence level to develop an interest or support.

More and more people have lost faith in the Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation aka AMSAT aka AMSAT-NA... heck they don't even know what their name should be. The loss of faith comes from controversies of legacy leaders violating bylaws, from space based hardware that doesn't function and from questionable representatives. The organization fears negative publicity but doesn't seem to be able to distance themselves from it:



There are ways that the organization could generate positive publicity but that will mean radical changes to what has been happening over the past few years. I want the organization to survive but, at this point, I'm not hopeful for that to happen. Time will tell...
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W3WN

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well first of all, the President's reply is attempting to clarify that there is no Amsat-NA Ambassador program but there is an Amsat Global one.  So he is making a distinction between NA and global.  Sounds clear enough to me.

But wait... it actually isn't.

Amsat-NA calls itself Amsat,  and the website is Amsat.org, not Amsat-NA.org.   So....  when the Amsat.org page talks about Ambassadors, is it referring to a program of Amsat-global, or of Amsat-NA which also calls itself Amsat?

Saying "Amsat" in any context anywhere to anyone might be (mis)construed as referring either to the -NA or the global version of Amsat, depending on who is hearing or reading it.

Splitting hairs?  Maybe, but Amsat has to decide if it is Amsat or Amsat-NA in cases like this.

73, Ed
Ed,

The "hair splitting" you cite is because the North American AMSAT is the original AMSAT, which sprung out of the original Project OSCAR (and yes, I know that is a simplification of history for the sake of brevity).  To many, the two are synonymous.

Considering history, I don't think AMSAT has to decide anything. 
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Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati.
Ban The DH!
זאל ס גיין באַקס!

VE3WGO

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One Weakness that was not mentioned in the Amsat journal article above, is Engineering Process, as evidenced by Amsat's fair but not great track record in recent satellite projects, especially the Fox series.  If Fox is being used as some kind of platform for future satellite missions, it needs some root cause analysis (RCA) to reveal what the failure mechanisms have been.

First step of an RCA process is acknowledgement of the failure.

73, Ed

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WE4B

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One Weakness that was not mentioned in the Amsat journal article above, is Engineering Process, as evidenced by Amsat's fair but not great track record in recent satellite projects, especially the Fox series.  If Fox is being used as some kind of platform for future satellite missions, it needs some root cause analysis (RCA) to reveal what the failure mechanisms have been.

First step of an RCA process is acknowledgement of the failure.

Many members and stakeholders have asked for this but AMSAT has not released any data or reasons for failures. The excuse 'space is hard' is very tired after a string of three failures in a row. Yes, SpaceX has had failures but I guarantee you that they analyze their failures.

It's important for AMSAT to learn from its mistakes and, due to the fact that it's a organization supported by the amateur radio community, it's important for AMSAT to admit mistakes and publish what happened.
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WE4B

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My offer stands to the Ambassador. I keep asking him to meet me on a D-Star where others, worldwide, can listen in to our conversation. I have a personal hot-spot and a local repeater available for me to access.

This is a great opportunity for he and I to discuss our differences and find common ground. I would offer a chance to make a QSO with him on a satellite but, oddly enough, even though he's an AMSAT Ambassador he doesn't operate on satellites. I guess the old saying about those that can do and those that can't teach may be true in this situation.

So, I'm available on D-Star complete with a worldwide audience, should they want to listen. All the Ambassador has to do is tell me what time (in UTC) and which reflector. Surely this would help us work out differences and find common ground.

I've offered the olive branch on other social media accounts and now here. I'm not sure what else I can do.
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