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Author Topic: Lack Of US Product Support  (Read 1595 times)

K6AER

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Lack Of US Product Support
« on: February 06, 2021, 09:17:13 AM »

I have noticed that one manufacture of a cute 20-watt SDR HF radio, made in China, does not have any US service for their product. Repeated E-Mail inquiries goes unanswered. The price point has made the radio attractive but, in this world, you get what you pay for.

A friend of mine bought the Icom 705 and had the charge board burn up some critical components. Icom thought that maybe the owner had glitched the DC power input and the radio and this failure was not under warranty. After some consideration, Icom sent a new IC-705 to replace the defective unit. No charge to the owner.

Too often hams are focused on price point only and do not consider the after sales service and support. We all love a bargain but companies have to made a profit to stay in business. Should their business plan embrace that the product never fails, than you need to consider your long term lack of product support.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2021, 09:20:01 AM by K6AER »
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N8AUC

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Re: Lack Of US Product Support
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2021, 09:31:28 AM »

I have noticed that one manufacture of a cute 20-watt SDR HF radio, made in China, does not have any US service for their product. Repeated E-Mail inquiries goes unanswered. The price point has made the radio attractive but, in this world, you get what you pay for.

A friend of mine bought the Icom 705 and had the charge board burn up some critical components. Icom thought that maybe the owner had glitched the DC power input and the radio and this failure was not under warranty. After some consideration, Icom sent a new IC-705 to replace the defective unit. No charge to the owner.

Too often hams are focused on price point only and do not consider the after sales service and support. We all love a bargain but companies have to male a profit to stay in business. Should their business plan embrace that the product never fails, than you need to consider your long term lack of product support.

I could not agree with this more! I feel that everything above is 100% spot on!

Having a cheap $30 HT fail with no support isn't a big deal. At that price point, it's basically a disposable item.

Having a $500 HF rig fail with no support is a much bigger deal. At that price point, I don't consider it a disposable item. Of course if you wallet is much fatter than mine, you may not care as much.

This seems to be a much more frequent occurrence when you buy from those very low price online sellers, like the ones that show up on Amazon and ebay.

A word to the wise.....buyer beware!
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G8FXC

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Re: Lack Of US Product Support
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2021, 10:08:31 AM »

It's common sense really, isn't it? I'll risk cheap items with no support structure, but not expensive items. I'm wary of buying expensive second hand items from the major manufacturers from a private seller - I would normally either buy new or second hand from a dealer who will offer at least a few months guaranty.

Martin (G8FXC)
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W2JJV

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Re: Lack Of US Product Support
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2021, 11:13:38 AM »

Interestingly, I had an odd experience with an Amazon seller based in China.  I purchased an item, cost about 300 dollars.  It shipped promptly from a warehouse in the U.S. and I needed a couple of small screws due to a mistake on my part.  They were very gracious and said they would go ahead and arrange for the items to be sent no charge.  After about two weeks, not only did I not get the promised shipment notification, but the items sale price had changed "significantly".  in writing back asking what happened to my missing parts, I inquired about the almost fifty percent price decrease, saying at the end of the note, "can you help me out here".

They sent a whole second item as a gift.

My point is that I am finding, at least with overseas sellers whose only access the U.S. customers is Amazon and E-bay, they often seem very eager to retain that market and desperately rely on good reviews. Begging for good reviews in more like it.  They were very happy to be rewarded with a favorable review. 

Another interesting tidbit.  Go to Alibaba and look up the item you're contemplating purchasing.  I found the item that I originally bought for 300 dollars, wholesaled for 50 - 60 bucks depending on the quantity.  Of course, you have to include shipping, warehousing and fulfillment costs but still and all, they pay way less for this stuff and that seemed to explain why they found it easier to send a new one than a few missing screws.

Several times I have found the same item on Amazon with a different name logo, that I can buy from a major US supplier with their logo.  The item, packaging, instructions and specs are identical.  In those cases I have found that Amazon is very accommodating in accepting returns and replacements. 

I guess we have to do a lot of homework when shopping online.

73, and stay safe,
David
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SOFAR

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Re: Lack Of US Product Support
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2021, 12:36:54 PM »

So its about $100 cheaper than Icom 718? With 80 less watts?

Can't say I'd go that route..
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K0UA

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Re: Lack Of US Product Support
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2021, 05:57:20 PM »

So its about $100 cheaper than Icom 718? With 80 less watts?

Can't say I'd go that route..

Why would you compare it to an ICOM 718? It is considerably more sophisticated and 20 years  newer design than an Icom 718.  You are truly comparing apples and oranges here.  Even though they are nearly in the same price class, they are not in the same class at all.
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73  James K0UA

N8AUC

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Re: Lack Of US Product Support
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2021, 06:21:10 PM »

So its about $100 cheaper than Icom 718? With 80 less watts?

Can't say I'd go that route..

Depends on your use case really. If you're primarily an SSB operator, those 100 watts are important. If you're a CW or data mode guy, 20 watts is plenty of power. If you operate primarily from home, current consumption isn't really an issue. But if you like to operate in the field, using power sources you carry with you, then current consumption is a critical consideration, and you count every milliamp.

But comparing an Icom 718 to a G90 isn't an apples to apples comparison. There is a lot more to rig performance than just how much transmitter output power it produces. The G90 is a full fledged SDR, the 718 isn't. As a result of that architecture difference, a properly functioning G90 will run rings around an Icom 718 on receive, especially in the receiver selectivity department. It also consumes much less current, which is important for the portable operator. Then there is the built-in antenna tuner. I don't think the 718 has one. But the G90 does, and from what people tell me, it'll darn near tune a wet noodle to resonance.

I actually think the G90 is a pretty cool radio. But the way things are now, I wouldn't buy one on a bet. Because if that G90 fails, you're pretty much screwed. But Icom will service a 718, no problem, and when you call Icom, they actually answer the phone. When it comes to after-sale service and support, the big three (Kenwood, Yaesu, Icom) literally kicks Xiegu's butt, or any "direct from China" manufacturer for that matter. Even MFJ kicks China's butt, which should tell you just how non-existent service is from China. It all comes down to how much financial risk that you as the purchaser are willing to assume. It's like Clint Eastwood's line in Dirty Harry, "Do you feel lucky? Well....do ya?"

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W5JON

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Re: Lack Of US Product Support
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2021, 10:17:53 AM »

Hi,

I was really giving very serious consideration to purchasing a G90 as a spare/backup radio, as it would have been a perfect spare/backup driver for my KPA500. But "no US service" is a total game changer. Should full USA Service become available on the G90 before I purchase, the G90 may go back on the list, otherwise I will just buy another Yaesu.

73,

John
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SOFAR

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Re: Lack Of US Product Support
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2021, 04:06:26 PM »

So its about $100 cheaper than Icom 718? With 80 less watts?

Can't say I'd go that route..

Depends on your use case really. If you're primarily an SSB operator, those 100 watts are important. If you're a CW or data mode guy, 20 watts is plenty of power. If you operate primarily from home, current consumption isn't really an issue. But if you like to operate in the field, using power sources you carry with you, then current consumption is a critical consideration, and you count every milliamp.

But comparing an Icom 718 to a G90 isn't an apples to apples comparison. There is a lot more to rig performance than just how much transmitter output power it produces. The G90 is a full fledged SDR, the 718 isn't. As a result of that architecture difference, a properly functioning G90 will run rings around an Icom 718 on receive, especially in the receiver selectivity department. It also consumes much less current, which is important for the portable operator. Then there is the built-in antenna tuner. I don't think the 718 has one. But the G90 does, and from what people tell me, it'll darn near tune a wet noodle to resonance.

I actually think the G90 is a pretty cool radio. But the way things are now, I wouldn't buy one on a bet. Because if that G90 fails, you're pretty much screwed. But Icom will service a 718, no problem, and when you call Icom, they actually answer the phone. When it comes to after-sale service and support, the big three (Kenwood, Yaesu, Icom) literally kicks Xiegu's butt, or any "direct from China" manufacturer for that matter. Even MFJ kicks China's butt, which should tell you just how non-existent service is from China. It all comes down to how much financial risk that you as the purchaser are willing to assume. It's like Clint Eastwood's line in Dirty Harry, "Do you feel lucky? Well....do ya?"

Thanks for the info. Does have some attractive features. Just not a brand that would interest me  even if they 'claimed' U.S. support.

If I was capped at that price point, I would seek alternatives. That would lack features.
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WB2WIK

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Re: Lack Of US Product Support
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2021, 10:02:13 AM »

Hi,

I was really giving very serious consideration to purchasing a G90 as a spare/backup radio, as it would have been a perfect spare/backup driver for my KPA500. But "no US service" is a total game changer. Should full USA Service become available on the G90 before I purchase, the G90 may go back on the list, otherwise I will just buy another Yaesu.

73,

John

Hi John!

I bought a new G90 about a year ago from "Radioditty" (first time buying anything from them) and it's worked fine.   They do cover warranty repairs but I really don't know what happens post-warranty.   I suspect (unconfirmed) their warranty coverage may be just replacing the whole rig if it fails, as opposed to actually fixing it. :P

I think MFJ was offering a "2-year" warranty on this at no extra cost, but just looked to see their website reports "SOLD OUT" so I don't know if they'll be stocking again.

It's an impressive little machine.   Small, but the very bright color display includes a real-time spectrum scope/waterfall and everything you could possibly need to know at a glance, if you have good eyes.   Built-in keyer works well but is not "full QSK," it's semi-QSK probably due to SDR latency issues.   But it can be set to a very fast dropout time, probably about 50 mS or so.   SSB works fine but the supplied (stock) handheld mike is very "hot" and I had to turn the mike gain down to "1" to prevent it pickup up birds chirping and dogs barking.   But once so adjusted, it sounds good.

Much like many "very small" rigs, you end up plugging cables into three sides of it!  (Rear panel, left side, right side) if you use it with a paddle and headphones, for example.

But "performance" is actually pretty amazing.   Normal SDR stuff, tons of DSP filtering all adjustable, and it even has a "band sweep" antenna analyzer function built in which displays SWR vs. frequency across a ham band at the push of a button.

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AH7I

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Re: Lack Of US Product Support
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2021, 09:53:30 AM »

I have noticed that one manufacture of a cute 20-watt SDR HF radio, made in China, does not have any US service for their product. Repeated E-Mail inquiries goes unanswered. The price point has made the radio attractive but, in this world, you get what you pay for.

A friend of mine bought the Icom 705 and had the charge board burn up some critical components. Icom thought that maybe the owner had glitched the DC power input and the radio and this failure was not under warranty. After some consideration, Icom sent a new IC-705 to replace the defective unit. No charge to the owner.

Too often hams are focused on price point only and do not consider the after sales service and support. We all love a bargain but companies have to made a profit to stay in business. Should their business plan embrace that the product never fails, than you need to consider your long term lack of product support.

What is the radio? I enjoy repairing stuff. Maybe there's  dead one out there for few dollars.
73, -Bob ah7i
« Last Edit: April 14, 2021, 09:55:51 AM by AH7I »
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KM1H

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Re: Lack Of US Product Support
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2021, 05:57:19 PM »

Unless you absolutely need the latest and not always the best consider going back 40 years and get a Kenwood TS-830.

Affordable, easy to do any of the common repairs if any, large on line user base ready to help. With the 2X 6146 or Japanese  S2001A it will load into a wide range of antennas without a tuner.
Lots of filter options available from INRAD.

High resale value.

I have 4 of them!!

Carl
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NO9E

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Re: Lack Of US Product Support
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2021, 07:24:38 PM »

When we get old, we hate risk and we love old good days, although often the only good thing in those days was that we were younger.

People travel, and despite prices off the roof hotels are busy. Xiegu is equivalent of 2 nights vacation or less. Perhaps it provides more fun that 2 night vacations and if it goes kaput in a year, it has already provided enough excitement.

Ignacy NO9E
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VE3WGO

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Re: Lack Of US Product Support
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2021, 05:54:12 AM »

Same as Baofeng handhelds-- so cheap that if it goes kaput in a year, just throw it away.

That's precisely what's wrong with these cheap throw-away items.  Society no longer cares about filling landfills with junk that should never have been made (and bought) in the first place.

20 years from now, maybe the only radios on the air that can work for more than a year will be boat anchors.

I chuckle when I see reviews of these throw-away radios getting 5 stars when the reviewer talks about how the instructions are useless, mediocre design, no local product support, and they had to resolder some connector or replace some part, but it's still a 5 because it's cheap.  I guess hams are getting more and more used to accepting low cost junk.  No wonder outsiders laugh at us.
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N7EKU

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Re: Lack Of US Product Support
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2021, 06:01:30 AM »

So its about $100 cheaper than Icom 718? With 80 less watts?

Can't say I'd go that route..

Depends on your use case really. If you're primarily an SSB operator, those 100 watts are important. If you're a CW or data mode guy, 20 watts is plenty of power. If you operate primarily from home, current consumption isn't really an issue. But if you like to operate in the field, using power sources you carry with you, then current consumption is a critical consideration, and you count every milliamp.

But comparing an Icom 718 to a G90 isn't an apples to apples comparison. There is a lot more to rig performance than just how much transmitter output power it produces. The G90 is a full fledged SDR, the 718 isn't. As a result of that architecture difference, a properly functioning G90 will run rings around an Icom 718 on receive, especially in the receiver selectivity department. It also consumes much less current, which is important for the portable operator. Then there is the built-in antenna tuner. I don't think the 718 has one. But the G90 does, and from what people tell me, it'll darn near tune a wet noodle to resonance.

I actually think the G90 is a pretty cool radio. But the way things are now, I wouldn't buy one on a bet. Because if that G90 fails, you're pretty much screwed. But Icom will service a 718, no problem, and when you call Icom, they actually answer the phone. When it comes to after-sale service and support, the big three (Kenwood, Yaesu, Icom) literally kicks Xiegu's butt, or any "direct from China" manufacturer for that matter. Even MFJ kicks China's butt, which should tell you just how non-existent service is from China. It all comes down to how much financial risk that you as the purchaser are willing to assume. It's like Clint Eastwood's line in Dirty Harry, "Do you feel lucky? Well....do ya?"

So what's the current consumption on receive and 20W out transmit on the IC-718 vs the G90?

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Mark -- N7EKU/VE3
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