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Author Topic: new member, yes, I need advice  (Read 425 times)

17WHALER

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new member, yes, I need advice
« on: February 07, 2021, 11:05:55 AM »

Hello everyone.

On 11 September 2001, it was my privilege to deploy and serve at the World Trade Center terrorist attack as member of a Federal response team. It was a defining moment in my life; now retired, I have not returned since.

This coming September is the twentieth anniversary and I have decided to return to
NYC and I want to do something meaningful.

My son and I will be piloting my 2010 17-foot Boston Whaler Montauk from Boston Harbor to the Statue of Liberty; after the ceremony, we will proceed up the Hudson to Albany, NY. My goal is to motor approximately 400 plus miles in recognition of the 412 members of the Public Safety Community that died that day.

Presently, I am in the final planning stages and I have questions about communications. Let me begin with comments: Yes, I will get a license, I am a technologically inept and I have zero HAM knowledge.

So. After spending time on Radio References (scannernitwit) I received the impression that having a HAM radio on-board to supplement my marine radios is a good idea.

Due to the size of my boat I will be operating near shore; typically, < 8 miles out.

I am asking the HAM community if having a HAM radio on-board would be a benefit for me. I recognize that HAM Operators monitor channels for emergency use; is this correct? Can the radio be used as a “I can’t call home; would you call for me?”

My lack of knowledge about HAM limits my ability to ask solid questions about HAM radio usefulness.

Whenever I have a major purchasing decision or need advice I have found that subject matter “Forums” are the best place to reach out.

I look forward to your insight and comments.

My regrets for the long letter; I was uncertain how to ask my questions.

Take care.

PS: Just to let you know… I have a very strong background, recreational and professional in small boat operations.

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W6MK

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Re: new member, yes, I need advice
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2021, 12:47:24 PM »

That sounds like a real adventure. I've had some experience offshore in small boats in heavy weather in the Puget Sound area. And in San Francisco Bay and just outside the Golden Gate.

Things can get dicey very easily of course during and after a big blow. In San Francisco Bay the daily chop will beat you to death if you're under 30 or 40 ft. with a planing hull.

Regarding radio for emergency (and other) communications, a marine radio properly set-up should perform as well as an amateur radio. Along with a cellphone.

Amateur radio modes (e.g. repeaters) can be complex to set up and operation will vary with locality.
In addition, selecting frequencies, radios and antennas plus learning operating procedures present additional unneeded complexity.

Define your needs and see if marine radio plus cellphone will do for you. If there is some type of function not covered, define it and come back with a specific question about how ham radio might help.

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17WHALER

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Re: new member, yes, I need advice
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2021, 04:44:52 PM »

Thank you W6MK.

My marine radio skills are solid and I have a well tuned marine radio mounted and a good antenna.
I also have a marine portable and an active SPOT account.
As for a cell phone "of course!" but I had a previous bad experience using one calling for help.
(Nothing to do with boating.)

Yup, I understand dicey! Early September is the late middle of hurricane season and even if the storm is in the Gulf it will affect the NE coast.

My planning takes into account a major storm and I have pre-plotted several escapes.
However, the likelyhood of running into a storm unaware is nearly zero. I'm confident but not stupid!

My son did his Trauma Fellowship in Victoria BC; I am familiar with various areas of Puget Sound, the Straits and the San Juan Islands. I had access to a nice 21-foot RIB and would have a blast.

My navigation skills are very good and no worries there. Radio... nope! I'm used to someone else doing the talking. I have recently read several articles on-line about the benefits of HAM for long range communications.

However, I recognize the steep learning curve associated with it.

For now I will continue to seek comments from a couple of sources and make a decision.

I have other communication options if need be, but if I loose it I will have to flee the country!
(Mooching from a Federal friend!)

Thanks again for your reply, it is appreciated.

Take care.
Kevin
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KC8KTN

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Re: new member, yes, I need advice
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2021, 05:17:11 PM »

Thank you for your service.  You will make a fine ham and a Great addition to the ham world the hobby needs more like you. 73s

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17WHALER

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Re: new member, yes, I need advice
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2021, 09:53:58 AM »

Thank you for the kind words.
Right now I'm just trying to figure out what are my needs.
Take care,
Garv
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N8YX

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Re: new member, yes, I need advice
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2021, 10:07:03 AM »

Garv,

Get your General, put together a collection of amateur gear aboard your boat that can serve as a backup to your marine gear. If you can swing it, get a license to use HF Marine comms and procure the requisite type-accepted gear. (I'd look into an M700 or M800 series Icom). Then look at an amateur HF rig that's both rugged enough for shipboard use and allows re-use of accessories. An Icom 7200 or 718 would work nicely when paired with an AH-4 tuner; as I recall it uses the same mic and other options as the M-series rigs.

Ditto with VHF ship-shore and amateur comms on 2M, 440, what have you. At a minimum I'd have duplicate VHF comm options but if looking at extended deep-water cruising, invest in both types of HF rigs plus an antenna array.
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K0UA

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Re: new member, yes, I need advice
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2021, 11:35:06 AM »

If you were to ask me, I would concentrate on VHF/UHF gear if you are always going to be close to shore. And here is why. You will only need a Technician class of Amateur license to operate this gear. The gear is much cheaper than a full HF setup with tuner etc. The VHF/UHF antennas are similar to your existing Marine setup, and a good dual band vertical antenna will not be too large or expensive. You have plenty of time to get licensed and practice the protocols of communicating thru repeaters before September, and plenty of time to scope our your route and program in the repeaters and the needed access tones for each one. These can all be stored pre-programmed into memory channels and ready to go before your trip. Or forget the UHF and just setup a VHF 2 meters antenna and a cheap 2 meter transceiver. Costs will be even less. This can act as your backup to your marine rig if things go south. I would not put money in an HF setup with its much greater complexity starting out. Sure I might have one on board, but I have been operating 50 years and have a lot more radio experience. But then I have no boating experience on salt water. Besides HF rigs are for "reaching out" and typically have a "skip zone" that can be several hundreds of miles wide. And if fact the people you need to ask for help need to be nearby, not thousands of miles away. An HF rig can easily reach someone 2 thousand miles away and not be able to reach someone 20 miles away.  Not unless you know the correct frequencies to use and times of day to use them. No a VHF setup is the ticket. MUCH less expensive, MUCH easier to use and MUCH more likely to contact people nearby who can actually help.  Just this landlubbers 2 centavos.  :)
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73  James K0UA

K6CPO

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Re: new member, yes, I need advice
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2021, 12:53:01 PM »

Just don't use your cell phone to navigate with...  A now-retired Navy helicopter pilot friend of mine had to go look for a couple of idiots that tried to navigate in Puget Sound using the navigation app on their call phones.  Needless to say they got lost...  A good quality GPS is a much better bet.
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W6MK

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Re: new member, yes, I need advice
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2021, 01:46:50 PM »

You have plenty of time to get licensed and practice the protocols of communicating thru repeaters before September, and plenty of time to scope our your route and program in the repeaters and the needed access tones for each one.

HF rigs are for "reaching out" and typically have a "skip zone" that can be several hundreds of miles wide. And if fact the people you need to ask for help need to be nearby, not thousands of miles away. An HF rig can easily reach someone 2 thousand miles away and not be able to reach someone 20 miles away.  Not unless you know the correct frequencies to use and times of day to use them.

James has taken the time to articulate what I should have.

He's a radioman's radioman.

I would only add that many beginners in ham radio find locating, understanding the availability and usage patters and required programming for local VHF/UHF repeaters to be a significant challenge. These are people who are motivated to learn to be radiomen, not yachtsmen.

My advice remains: stick to your marine radio and cellphone. Make sure your marine radio is of high quality, in top shape and its installation is bulletproof. Make sure you know the local characteristics of each marine radio jurisdiction you going to pass through. High quality cellphone/smartphone, possibly with a backup; a cellphone overboard cannot be rescued.

Robust power and power backup system for radio and phone charging.

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W1RKW

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Re: new member, yes, I need advice
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2021, 02:16:24 PM »

could always go with a backup marine radio.
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17WHALER

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Re: new member, yes, I need advice
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2021, 07:09:57 PM »

Hello everyone.

Thank you very much for the replies and insight.

Reflecting on my original post I am uncertain if I am heading in the right direction.
After reading your replies I thought; yikes, I’m over my head!

My marine radio, marine navigation and operational skills are excellent.

Regardless, boating has inherent dangers and whenever I go out I do my best to be thoroughly prepared. However, this voyage is a bit beyond typical operation of a small boat. Given that I will be operating at higher RPMs, 8-hour days and traveling during hurricane season; it is my intent to enhance my communication capabilities as part of my worse-case planning.

(I have a very comprehensive route plotted with numerous, go, no-go locations and harbors of refuge.)

I gave thought to a Marine SSB radio, (thanks N8YX)
but I wanted a tool that had use when I was not on the boat. I even thought about a CB radio.

Honestly, I know very little about the HAM community, but I am trying to learn.
From what I have read HAM radios are monitored by different people and organizations and that there is coverage between Boston and New York, that HAM radio can be used to gather information and relay important messages if other means don’t work. I have reached out to ARRL for advice.

Like just about everyone; I will have a cell phone, but I do not rely on it 100% for emergencies.
Oh, and I never use it for navigation! Thanks, K6CPO… no worries! I have a redundant GPS chart plotter systems and an IPad with a dedicated GPS antenna operating Navionics and iNavX.

All of your comments have been helpful; again, thank you, I appreciate it.

Take care,
Garv
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RADIOPHONE

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Re: new member, yes, I need advice
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2021, 08:30:36 PM »

"From what I have read HAM radios are monitored by different people and organizations and that there is coverage between Boston and New York, that HAM radio can be used to gather information and relay important messages if other means don’t work."

Where did you read all that at ???
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K1JRF

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Re: new member, yes, I need advice
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2021, 10:00:32 PM »

Looks like your getting plenty of advice on radios. As someone who grew up in the area and spent a lot of time on recreational boats beware going thru the Cape Cod canal in a 17 ft whaler. Don't know what your engine is but over the years I can't  count the number of smaller boats I've watched that simply could not make any progress against the tide. I've watched small boats have trouble getting thru even just hull gut on certain tides. Not having control is very dangerous. Timing your trip thru the canal when  there are  slack tides would be advisable .
The more I think about this I'd say don't do it. 17 ft whalers are not designed or intended to travel those locations and conditions. . Check with some local mariners or with the coast guard. If everyone shakes thier head it's for a reason.
Your cause is noble but winding up as a tragic story on the news in not going to help the cause. That's my mariner wisdom .... sugar coating removed.
Best wishes, John
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SOFAR

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Re: new member, yes, I need advice
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2021, 01:50:57 AM »

1. Ham is slang for Amateur radio, it is not an acronym, like RPM.
2. Why would anyone rely on amateur radio, or a cell phone, for true emergency at sea?
3. There are purpose built hf marine radios, with DSC, GPS (acronyms). That alert other vessels of your location and type of emergency. More features that YOU have to research.

If you have an interest in Amateur radio, as a hobby, you can receive plenty of info here.

If you want info on safety at sea, talk to people that have experience at sea. Check the Coast Guard website for links.
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KF5LJW

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Re: new member, yes, I need advice
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2021, 07:10:36 AM »

Last thing you would ever want is a ham radio operator help for an emergency. Hams got fired 20 years ago. If anything obtain a second Marine VHF radio as backup and have your cell phone to back that up. 
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