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Author Topic: ARRL drops the ball??  (Read 4370 times)

W9IQ

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Re: ARRL drops the ball??
« Reply #90 on: March 28, 2021, 08:42:18 AM »

Here is the specific wording:

Quote from: SUMMERFIELD/RIVERWALK VILLAGE Homeowners’ Manual
Station Antenna Devices
     •Antennas for AM/FM/HF amateur (HAM) radios or Internet are covered in FCC regulations station antenna structures.
     •This regulation is limited to state and local regulations and does not apply to HOAs (Home Owner Associations)

LWR HOA
HAM radio operators are required to obtain prior consent from the Modification Committee prior to installing an outside antenna. Free standing antennas (towers) are not authorized and antennas in common areas are prohibited.

Location of Antennas
     •Prohibited in common areas.
     •No antenna shall be mounted on the front of a residence or on the front half of either side of a residence.
     •Antennas permanently attached or mounted must be well-secured to the residence.
     •Antennas should not be visible from the street.
     •If the antenna is visible by a neighbor (side or back) the homeowner Installing the antenna should get a written statement from the/all neighbor(s) that he/she or they have no objection to its placement and submit such statements to the Modification Committee.
     •Only one antenna per residence Is authorized.
     •An FCC Radio license Is required for station operations.

Antenna Installation
     •Prior approval must be obtained from the Modification Committee prior to placement or installation of any antenna upon property governed by the HOA covenants and restrictions.
     •All written requests for the placement and installation of any aerial antenna shall Include a detailed diagram of the dimensions and proposed location of the antennae’s placement.
     •Poles or masts may be used to mount an antenna provided the antenna does not rise above thereof line to be visible from the street.

NOTE: No reasonable request from Community Emergency Response Team (CERT) HAM operators will be refused given the antenna will be used for the safety of Lakewood Ranch residents during an emergency.

- Glenn W9IQ
« Last Edit: March 28, 2021, 08:47:54 AM by W9IQ »
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- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.

W3WN

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Re: ARRL drops the ball??
« Reply #91 on: March 28, 2021, 11:38:40 AM »

IMO, The main two reasons for CC&R antenna restrictions/prohibitions and HOA enforcement are 1. aesthetics, and 2. safety. Nobody wants to look out their window and see wires or vertical/horizontal poles in their neighbor's backyard, and nobody wants said antennas to fall over into their backyard, causing damage or injury. They could give a rat's a** about RFI or radiation.
While a 70 ft tower with tri-bander mounted on top, sitting on the edge of a postage-stamp size  city lot, would probably raise objections for those reasons, most people wouldn't give a "rat's a**" about a dipole strung between a couple of trees in the backyard, except for that small, vocal lunatic fringe minority who suffer from ADS (antenna derangement syndrome) while basking in a personal power trip.

The real reason for the "no antenna" clause is that it was inserted long ago into the standard boilerplate that's conveniently used to formulate HOA rules, thus avoiding the arduous task of formulating a comprehensive set of rules from scratch for each new development.  With most HOAs, "antennas" probably never even entered the realm of anyone's mind until someone first confronted the issue well after the HOA had been established, but by then it's too late because the antenna prohibition already exists, for no reason other than that it's already on the books by default.
A comment on boilerplates...

A local ham (nuclear engineer and a US Navy veteran, BTW) serves on his municipalities Zoning Board, and is currently involved in updating their Zoning regulations. 

They hired an “expert” consultant, who handed them a one-size-fits-all boilerplate, which, he claims, is the one “Everyone” is adopting.

That’s how it starts, you see.

The Zoning Board has been reviewing the boilerplate ever since, and are insisting on many changes.  For one thing, it’s a rural township, so many urban-related items don’t apply.  (And I’m not just talking about Antennas). 

The Expert has some issues with this.  Seems he’s not used to being questioned.  I guess his expertise... and his boilerplates... have simply been accepted in the past.
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KM1H

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Re: ARRL drops the ball??
« Reply #92 on: March 28, 2021, 01:05:01 PM »

Quote
They hired an “expert” consultant, who handed them a one-size-fits-all boilerplate, which, he claims, is the one “Everyone” is adopting.

That’s how it starts, you see.

The Zoning Board has been reviewing the boilerplate ever since, and are insisting on many changes.  For one thing, it’s a rural township, so many urban-related items don’t apply.  (And I’m not just talking about Antennas).

The Expert has some issues with this.  Seems he’s not used to being questioned.  I guess his expertise... and his boilerplates... have simply been accepted in the past.

An expert consultant is often someone who was canned from a job as about useless; others never held a real job.  Often they get big severance packages in order to keep lawyers away. Amazingly the sheeple in this country blindly accepts whatever they say since they know nothing to start with.

Ive discredited several "consultants" in this area as well as on the Internet.

Carl
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K1VSK

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Re: ARRL drops the ball??
« Reply #93 on: March 28, 2021, 01:48:01 PM »


An expert consultant is often someone who was canned from a job as about useless; others never held a real job.  Often they get big severance packages in order to keep lawyers away. Amazingly the sheeple in this country blindly accepts whatever they say since they know nothing to start with.

Ive discredited several "consultants" in this area as well as on the Internet.

Carl
Still recall one memorable interview I had when looking to hire someone with specialized experience and he described himself to me as not just an expert but rather a “recognized expert”. As it turned out, he was neither.

What W3WN described was the proper and typical diligence of the regulatory authority to consider advice and review recommendations but make their own decisions. Only the uninformed unthinkingly and often blindly accept the opinion of others. To put it in the proper context, it’s wise to invite the “right” people to lunch.
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NA4M

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Re: ARRL drops the ball??
« Reply #94 on: March 29, 2021, 11:21:49 AM »

The real reason for the "no antenna" clause is that it was inserted long ago into the standard boilerplate that's conveniently used to formulate HOA rules...

Developing raw land for new housing costs a lot of $$.  The real estate developer typically goes to bank(s) to secure financing.

A number of years ago I came across information on the interweb that claimed an underlying major reason for the proliferation of HOA's for new housing development was that the banks require real estate developers to implement HOA's in order to secure the needed financing. The developers sign on the dotted line after plugging in HOA boilerplate to satisfy the lender's requirement.

Unfortunately I have never been able to relocate the interweb info.

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W8LV

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Re: ARRL drops the ball??
« Reply #95 on: March 30, 2021, 01:30:23 AM »

 "If the antenna is visible by a neighbor (side or back) the homeowner Installing the antenna should get a written statement from the/all neighbor(s) that he/she or they have no objection to its placement and submit such statements to the Modification Committee."

While well intended, this leads us back to Gladys. That's a problem.

You can talk it up, and talk it down. And talk all around it. Or? Make an ad hominin attack against me.

 And STILL? We need to ELIMINATE THE HOA MAN AND GLADYS FROM THE EQUATION.

They didn't like OTARD, either. But the sky didn't fall down when that went through. Gladys, Karen, and Ken need to be told to take a hike.

That's How It Is.

73 DE W8LV BILL
 
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K1VSK

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Re: ARRL drops the ball??
« Reply #96 on: March 30, 2021, 06:55:47 AM »

"If the antenna is visible by a neighbor (side or back) the homeowner Installing the antenna should get a written statement from the/all neighbor(s) that he/she or they have no objection to its placement and submit such statements to the Modification Committee."

While well intended, this leads us back to Gladys. That's a problem.

You can talk it up, and talk it down. And talk all around it. Or? Make an ad hominin attack against me.

 And STILL? We need to ELIMINATE THE HOA MAN AND GLADYS FROM THE EQUATION.

They didn't like OTARD, either. But the sky didn't fall down when that went through. Gladys, Karen, and Ken need to be told to take a hike.

That's How It Is.

73 DE W8LV BILL
 
Seems you don’t understand the concept - it’s called mutual respect for neighbors.  They have a right to express an opinion. Whats important to understand here is that a  diversity of opinions bothers you.
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W8LV

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Re: ARRL drops the ball??
« Reply #97 on: March 30, 2021, 08:38:55 AM »

"Seems you don’t understand the concept - it’s called mutual respect for neighbors.  They have a right to express an opinion. Whats important to understand here is that a  diversity of opinions bothers you"

Nonsense. We don't CARE about Glady's aesthetic "opinions" one iota. We want the  "opinions" of Gladys, Karen, and Ken REMOVED FROM THE DECISION. Entirely. Entirely! We want Gladys, Karen, and Ken to give US the mutual respect WE deserve. Nothing more, and nothing less! And if Karen agrees that our antenna is not ugly, and then she moves and Gladys and her pain in the you know what husband Ken now takes residence and "decides" that our antenna is ugly, we're back to Square One. That's why we need an OTARD like recession, to HEEL these busy-body types entirely. Otherwise, we wouldn't need a regulation. 73 DE W8LV
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K1VSK

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Re: ARRL drops the ball??
« Reply #98 on: March 30, 2021, 09:47:38 AM »



We want Gladys, Karen, and Ken to give US the mutual respect WE deserve.

Lets see if you can figure out all by yourself how you -
just demonstrated you have no clue what "mutual" means, and
that you apparently have none.

For added points, see if you can find anywhere in that document where it says neighbors have veto power or does it in fact state only that they must be asked for an opinion. Do you comprehend that distinction?
If these questions are too confusing, let me know and I'll write slower.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2021, 09:49:45 AM by K1VSK »
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K7JQ

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Re: ARRL drops the ball??
« Reply #99 on: March 30, 2021, 10:10:13 AM »


And if Karen agrees that our antenna is not ugly, and then she moves and Gladys and her pain in the you know what husband Ken now takes residence and "decides" that our antenna is ugly, we're back to Square One.  73 DE W8LV

You're not back to square one. If the HOA approved your antenna while Karen lived there, and she moves, it doesn't matter what Gladys and Ken think if they moved in after the fact. They saw your (approved) antenna when contemplating the purchase. If they didn't like it, they can look elsewhere.

Bob K7JQ
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N2EY

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Re: ARRL drops the ball??
« Reply #100 on: March 30, 2021, 10:32:15 AM »

"Seems you don’t understand the concept - it’s called mutual respect for neighbors.  They have a right to express an opinion. Whats important to understand here is that a  diversity of opinions bothers you"

Nonsense. We don't CARE about Glady's aesthetic "opinions" one iota. We want the  "opinions" of Gladys, Karen, and Ken REMOVED FROM THE DECISION. Entirely. Entirely! We want Gladys, Karen, and Ken to give US the mutual respect WE deserve. Nothing more, and nothing less! And if Karen agrees that our antenna is not ugly, and then she moves and Gladys and her pain in the you know what husband Ken now takes residence and "decides" that our antenna is ugly, we're back to Square One. That's why we need an OTARD like recession, to HEEL these busy-body types entirely. Otherwise, we wouldn't need a regulation. 73 DE W8LV

I agree 100%!

In the end it comes down to "who determines exactly what is "ugly"?"
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W8LV

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Re: ARRL drops the ball??
« Reply #101 on: March 30, 2021, 08:19:39 PM »

"You're not back to square one. If the HOA approved your antenna while Karen lived there, and she moves, it doesn't matter what Gladys and Ken think if they moved in after the fact. They saw your (approved) antenna when contemplating the purchase. If they didn't like it, they can look elsewhere."

No. It's back to SQUARE ONE when KAREN was allowed to call the shots, and it's "No Antenna For You!" Karen MUST be eliminated from the process. We don't want KAREN approving or disapproving anything! We need Legal RELIEF from Karen, because she's a PITA!

73 DE W8LV BILL
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K1VSK

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Re: ARRL drops the ball??
« Reply #102 on: March 31, 2021, 06:34:31 AM »

"You're not back to square one. If the HOA approved your antenna while Karen lived there, and she moves, it doesn't matter what Gladys and Ken think if they moved in after the fact. They saw your (approved) antenna when contemplating the purchase. If they didn't like it, they can look elsewhere."

No. It's back to SQUARE ONE when KAREN was allowed to call the shots, and it's "No Antenna For You!" Karen MUST be eliminated from the process. We don't want KAREN approving or disapproving anything! We need Legal RELIEF from Karen, because she's a PITA!

73 DE W8LV BILL
Zero score. You get an F and need to repeat the class.  the test was easy too. 
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K7JQ

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Re: ARRL drops the ball??
« Reply #103 on: March 31, 2021, 09:19:22 AM »

"You're not back to square one. If the HOA approved your antenna while Karen lived there, and she moves, it doesn't matter what Gladys and Ken think if they moved in after the fact. They saw your (approved) antenna when contemplating the purchase. If they didn't like it, they can look elsewhere."

Bob  K7JQ


No. It's back to SQUARE ONE when KAREN was allowed to call the shots, and it's "No Antenna For You!" Karen MUST be eliminated from the process. We don't want KAREN approving or disapproving anything! We need Legal RELIEF from Karen, because she's a PITA!

73 DE W8LV BILL

Bill,

Calm down...you're sniffing too much solder smoke and raising your blood pressure ;D.

You're way off base. "Karen's" approval/disapproval/opinion has nothing to do with CC&R's...she doesn't "call the shots". It's strictly the HOA's approval or rejection of antenna proposals, based on the wording of the CC&R's. I have no idea where you come up with "eliminating Karen from the process" ???.
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W1MOW

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Re: ARRL drops the ball??
« Reply #104 on: March 31, 2021, 10:31:56 AM »

"You're not back to square one. If the HOA approved your antenna while Karen lived there, and she moves, it doesn't matter what Gladys and Ken think if they moved in after the fact. They saw your (approved) antenna when contemplating the purchase. If they didn't like it, they can look elsewhere."

Bob  K7JQ


No. It's back to SQUARE ONE when KAREN was allowed to call the shots, and it's "No Antenna For You!" Karen MUST be eliminated from the process. We don't want KAREN approving or disapproving anything! We need Legal RELIEF from Karen, because she's a PITA!

73 DE W8LV BILL

Bill,

Calm down...you're sniffing too much solder smoke and raising your blood pressure ;D.

You're way off base. "Karen's" approval/disapproval/opinion has nothing to do with CC&R's...she doesn't "call the shots". It's strictly the HOA's approval or rejection of antenna proposals, based on the wording of the CC&R's. I have no idea where you come up with "eliminating Karen from the process" ???.

That's not entirely true. If the next door "Karen" hears that your petitioning the "board" for approval to install an antenna. If she's a true "Karen", she will rile up the neighbors and exaggerate how ugly they will be, tell them that it will interfere with their telephones, TV's, WiFi, (this is the one I like) their hearing aids. Then they show up at the meeting, and you might as well forget about the antenna. Experienced this once with our kids playing in our own property.

So Yes the "Karen's" can effect the out come.

Gary W1MOW
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The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt - Bertram Russell (1935)

So not much has changed in almost 90 years!
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