Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 ... 13   Go Down

Author Topic: ARRL drops the ball??  (Read 4372 times)

W9FIB

  • Member
  • Posts: 3501
    • HomeURL
Re: ARRL drops the ball??
« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2021, 02:42:11 AM »





How many would answer such a survey? How many, seeing it's a request for donations, don't even open the envelope, and throw it in the trash? Could you *really* extrapolate meaningful numbers from the responses (how accurate have political sample polls been recently)? How many hams are actually active and care about restrictions? At what number would you consider "pervasive"?


Not a snail mail poll which would be both expensive and largely ignored but rather something similar to the silly on-line polls they routinely put in QST which reaches all members and generates large response numbers according to their data. Cheap, easy, not labor intensive and quick for all involved to both respond and tabulate. There is no rational reason for not doing so.

Even if they receive a small response, that too is indicative of the ambivalence to the issue. But they don't even try which implies they don't want an answer.

It serves no purpose debating it here but the simple fact the ARRL hasn't exerted any effort to identify the magnitude of this "problem" is telling.

But even then, the sample rate would be too small just based on ARRL membership. The survey, to have any meaning, would have to be given to ALL OPs in the country covering a much larger and diverse group of people.

Also, what about OPs that don't use the internet. Are they automatically disqualified?

And how do you round up 500k+ email addresses from non members? Or do you automatically disqualify them too?

If it is so easy to do, why don't you do it?
Logged
73, Stan
Travelling the world one signal at a time.

K1VSK

  • Member
  • Posts: 1949
Re: ARRL drops the ball??
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2021, 05:24:10 AM »





How many would answer such a survey? How many, seeing it's a request for donations, don't even open the envelope, and throw it in the trash? Could you *really* extrapolate meaningful numbers from the responses (how accurate have political sample polls been recently)? How many hams are actually active and care about restrictions? At what number would you consider "pervasive"?


Not a snail mail poll which would be both expensive and largely ignored but rather something similar to the silly on-line polls they routinely put in QST which reaches all members and generates large response numbers according to their data. Cheap, easy, not labor intensive and quick for all involved to both respond and tabulate. There is no rational reason for not doing so.

Even if they receive a small response, that too is indicative of the ambivalence to the issue. But they don't even try which implies they don't want an answer.

It serves no purpose debating it here but the simple fact the ARRL hasn't exerted any effort to identify the magnitude of this "problem" is telling.

But even then, the sample rate would be too small just based on ARRL membership. The survey, to have any meaning, would have to be given to ALL OPs in the country covering a much larger and diverse group of people.

Also, what about OPs that don't use the internet. Are they automatically disqualified?

And how do you round up 500k+ email addresses from non members? Or do you automatically disqualify them too?

If it is so easy to do, why don't you do it?
Because I am not the organization which claims to represent all hams. Not to mention HOA antenna limits aren’t my issue.

The ARRL did polling when developing the band plan and also when soliciting comments on other policy issues in the past so implying it is impractical or invalid is silly. And they continue to do so EVERY MONTH in QST on far more trivial things with, as I already said, sufficient data points on which they base judgments so your points are more excuses than reasons.

Parenthetically, if some folks can’t afford a computer and high speed connection, they certainly can’t afford this hobby. Another silly excuse.
Logged

W9FIB

  • Member
  • Posts: 3501
    • HomeURL
Re: ARRL drops the ball??
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2021, 05:48:16 PM »

Because I am not the organization which claims to represent all hams. Not to mention HOA antenna limits aren’t my issue.

The ARRL did polling when developing the band plan and also when soliciting comments on other policy issues in the past so implying it is impractical or invalid is silly. And they continue to do so EVERY MONTH in QST on far more trivial things with, as I already said, sufficient data points on which they base judgments so your points are more excuses than reasons.

Parenthetically, if some folks can’t afford a computer and high speed connection, they certainly can’t afford this hobby. Another silly excuse.

If your not involved, why are you involved here?

You failed to show how to make up for the non-ARRL OPs.

Some choose not to be online. Has nothing to do with price or affordability. Although I could understand the comment from someone with larger than median incomes.

Your comments do not fit the narrative here. Care to answer the questions this time?
Logged
73, Stan
Travelling the world one signal at a time.

K1VSK

  • Member
  • Posts: 1949
Re: ARRL drops the ball??
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2021, 06:14:48 PM »


If your not involved, why are you involved here?
Because I live in an HOA. You?????

Quote
You failed to show how to make up for the non-ARRL OPs.


Ask the ARRL. I don't have to. The ARRL is trying to intercede in all HOAs when they don't want to bother asking those most affected, the vast majority of whom are not members. 

The ARRL didn't "drop the ball" here. They never had it, found it, don't know what color it is, shape, size or anything else about the"ball" and it's likely no "ball" even exists as virtually no one has been looking for it.
Logged

W9FIB

  • Member
  • Posts: 3501
    • HomeURL
Re: ARRL drops the ball??
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2021, 06:28:52 PM »


If your not involved, why are you involved here?
Because I live in an HOA. You?????

Quote
You failed to show how to make up for the non-ARRL OPs.


Ask the ARRL. I don't have to. The ARRL is trying to intercede in all HOAs when they don't want to bother asking those most affected, the vast majority of whom are not members. 

The ARRL didn't "drop the ball" here. They never had it, found it, don't know what color it is, shape, size or anything else about the"ball" and it's likely no "ball" even exists as virtually no one has been looking for it.
But you advocated an ARRL survey. So I asked the question of what to do with non members? And then you say their opinion doesn't count because the ARRL doesn't ask them?
Logged
73, Stan
Travelling the world one signal at a time.

RADIOPHONE

  • Posts: 315
    • HomeURL
Re: ARRL drops the ball??
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2021, 07:13:57 PM »

73sss, Wee Stanley
Some culture needs to be cancelled:
"If your not involved, why are you involved here?"


It is "you're", not "your", young Stanley.
Logged

W9FIB

  • Member
  • Posts: 3501
    • HomeURL
Re: ARRL drops the ball??
« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2021, 03:42:14 AM »

73sss, Wee Stanley
Some culture needs to be cancelled:
"If your not involved, why are you involved here?"


It is "you're", not "your", young Stanley.

So?
Logged
73, Stan
Travelling the world one signal at a time.

K1VSK

  • Member
  • Posts: 1949
Re: ARRL drops the ball??
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2021, 06:35:55 AM »


If your not involved, why are you involved here?
Because I live in an HOA. You?????

Quote
You failed to show how to make up for the non-ARRL OPs.


Ask the ARRL. I don't have to. The ARRL is trying to intercede in all HOAs when they don't want to bother asking those most affected, the vast majority of whom are not members. 

The ARRL didn't "drop the ball" here. They never had it, found it, don't know what color it is, shape, size or anything else about the"ball" and it's likely no "ball" even exists as virtually no one has been looking for it.
But you advocated an ARRL survey. So I asked the question of what to do with non members? And then you say their opinion doesn't count because the ARRL doesn't ask them?

No - I said the ARRL doesn’t count their opinions. You might ask the ARRL why....but you won’t.

So again, do you live in an HOA with antenna limits?
Logged

K1VSK

  • Member
  • Posts: 1949
Re: ARRL drops the ball??
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2021, 07:20:15 AM »



Your comments do not fit the narrative here.
Not sure you realize that you seem to always take differing opinions personally as though you are threatened by them. Try focusing on the message, not the messenger.
Your opinion is simply that - it invalidates or contradicts nothing I wrote.
Logged

W1MOW

  • Member
  • Posts: 269
Re: ARRL drops the ball??
« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2021, 08:51:27 AM »



Your comments do not fit the narrative here.
Not sure you realize that you seem to always take differing opinions personally as though you are threatened by them. Try focusing on the message, not the messenger.
Your opinion is simply that - it invalidates or contradicts nothing I wrote.

Having lived in 4 HOA communities in all parts of the country...Yes there both the good and bad, you are lucky that you live in a good. All you have to do is look at youtube to get a sense of the bad ones. In one I lived in they tried to ban a US Government issued car because it had US Gov plates. The well known busy body President claimed it violated the ban on commercial vehicles. It took a letter from an Asst US Attorney to solve the issue.

I have a suggestion...Why don't you offer to help other hams to solve issues or offer suggestions on how to work with the HOA's to allow reasonable antennas. I am sure a lot of hams would love the assistance. As a P.E. I will always try to assist any hams in my area with any issues regarding any engineering/zoning issues.

Gary W1MOW
« Last Edit: March 04, 2021, 08:54:11 AM by W1MOW »
Logged
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt - Bertram Russell (1935)

So not much has changed in almost 90 years!

W9IQ

  • Member
  • Posts: 8866
Re: ARRL drops the ball??
« Reply #40 on: March 04, 2021, 08:58:17 AM »

+1 Gary

- Glenn W9IQ
Logged
- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.

KF5LJW

  • Posts: 577
    • HomeURL
Re: ARRL drops the ball??
« Reply #41 on: March 04, 2021, 09:31:45 AM »


s a P.E. I will always try to assist any hams in my area with any issues regarding any engineering/zoning issues.

Gary W1MOW

Garyyou just made a huge mistake admitting you are a PE on this site. You just lost all credibility. ;D  There are no rules of laws of physics in ham radio, just ask Carl.
Logged

W9FIB

  • Member
  • Posts: 3501
    • HomeURL
Re: ARRL drops the ball??
« Reply #42 on: March 04, 2021, 12:28:32 PM »



Your comments do not fit the narrative here.
Not sure you realize that you seem to always take differing opinions personally as though you are threatened by them. Try focusing on the message, not the messenger.
Your opinion is simply that - it invalidates or contradicts nothing I wrote.

Actually I did. You just picked 1 line and ignored the rest. Oh well. That's what happens when you question self proclaimed experts.
Logged
73, Stan
Travelling the world one signal at a time.

K1VSK

  • Member
  • Posts: 1949
Re: ARRL drops the ball??
« Reply #43 on: March 04, 2021, 02:01:18 PM »



Your comments do not fit the narrative here.
Not sure you realize that you seem to always take differing opinions personally as though you are threatened by them. Try focusing on the message, not the messenger.
Your opinion is simply that - it invalidates or contradicts nothing I wrote.

Actually I did. You just picked 1 line and ignored the rest. Oh well. That's what happens when you question self proclaimed experts.
there you go again but thanks for proving my point.
Logged

K1VSK

  • Member
  • Posts: 1949
Re: ARRL drops the ball??
« Reply #44 on: March 04, 2021, 02:12:39 PM »

.

I have a suggestion...Why don't you offer to help other hams to solve issues or offer suggestions on how to work with the HOA's to allow reasonable antennas. I am sure a lot of hams would love the assistance. As a P.E. I will always try to assist any hams in my area with any issues regarding any engineering/zoning issues.

Gary W1MOW

I kind of did. When we moved here 11 years ago, antennas were prohibited. I joined the local CERT which coincidentally included non-hams on the various Boards here and convinced them we needed some infrastructure to augment the CERT communications infrastructure with the collateral benefit of promoting ham radio and then wrote rules allowing antennas within the aesthetic concerns of the HOA.

The only problem seems to be the intractable and arguably uninformed opinions of those who don’t live in an HOA but seem to frequent eHam.com.

Regarding complaints about HOAs in general, people tend to post YouTube rants about only complaints which colors the broader picture and easily convinced those non- critical thinkers the issue is bigger than it might actually be. Unfortunately, theARRL hasn’t and likely isn’t and will never be interested in an objective assessment.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2021, 02:17:25 PM by K1VSK »
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 ... 13   Go Up