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Author Topic: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.  (Read 1207 times)

N2RRA

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2021, 07:49:41 AM »

Is that 5 watts qrp defined as power out of the transmitter or power at the antenna input?

What if you have that 10 watt radio and 3 db coax loss then that's 5 watts to the antenna.

Not sure if you’re being facetious or asking an honest question, but here it is in simplistic form and not complicated to understand.

The ruling in contesting, certificate awards, or the basic premise of QRP is the maximum output of the transmitter 10watts (SSB) 5watts (CW), or digital modes alike with a continuous carrier.

The antenna’s ERP is all up to you and that’s what running QRP makes challenging and fun. Can you make the contacts at 5watts you would at 100watts even if you need to improve the efficiency of your antennas to do it reducing coax loss, or improving antenna gain?

73
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KB1GMX

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2021, 08:57:40 AM »

Practical thoughts...

Measuring 5W into a load is not that hard to do.  Now or 50 years ago.
Back when the rule was how many watts DC input 5W DC input is
really simple .416mA @ 12V.  Kilowatt was 500mA at 2000V!

Anyone running a TX with 3db coax loss is really making it hard on
themselves. Its not a working proposition just a absurd case to prove
a point.

Many work with antennas however with 3db or more loss due to loading,
construction, or poor match.. It happens.  Consider the average 40M
mobile vertical.

Then there are people like me that enter a contest at QRP power, with
a beam antenna, 3 elements on 10m SSB one year got me lots of DX
and 4W out and called a liar.  The Bird does not lie.   A good antenna is
free gain [via directivity] and not against any rules.  QRP should not
stand for "using crap antenna".

To the QRO guys that same beam makes the 100W competitive.
Especially against the guy using a G5RV or similar despite his amp.

Contests set rules, we are on the honor system, 5W CW power or 10W PEP
is the general rule.  I use 5W single tone (SSB) to get a power it tends to be
more to the low side than higher.  That and really you have to go at least
3DB to make any difference and 6 (4x the power) to move the other guys
S meter 1 unit. 

Always the contest rules count.  For general work 11W is still QRP
[Shall I reduce  or I am running reduced power.] compared to most
guys running 100W or more.

To the guys with the "My big station makes your QRP possible"...
well maybe.   Then again I may be very low power but as I said
not running an improvised or compromised antennas.   

Makes me think of the year the club went QRP for FD,  low power
all modes.  Antennas, 40M wire beam, 20/15/10M wire beams
even a TH3JR tribander and OCF for 160 and 80.  As a club
we did very well that year.  What stood out was the lack of
interference between stations and far fewer power issues
to run the gear.  Fun was had.

Allison
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KA1CNK

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2021, 09:04:11 AM »

Not sure what the problem is supposed to be.  Contest rules specify what QRP is.  So the operator is supposed to operate within those rules.  Rules don't say the rig needs to be incapable of exceeding QRP levels.  Only thing a radio capable of more power does is make it easier to cheat.   If someones want to cheat does it really matter if the radio is capable of 20 or 100 watts?
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W7CXC

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2021, 09:35:54 AM »

To all you guys and Gals.   For heavens sake ....just enjoy what you enjoy and let others do the same. Sometimes I run 5w, the lowest the rig will go, sometimes 100w and sometimes a full gallon.  Can we not have a Rodney King moment. Do what makes you happy and content without denigrating others that enjoy something different than you do. Can you use a 100w rig set to 5w and call it QRP.....why the heck not. In my opinion FT8 is a bunch of computers talking to each other and is not true ham radio but if it floats your boat do it and be happy. Its not for me but I do not think my opinion matters to anyone but me. Have fun it's a hobby! 73's David
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NI0C

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2021, 10:21:35 AM »

The definition of QRP has changed over the years. What is now the QRPARCI started out in the early 1960's with the limit being 100 watts (input power as we measured it in those days), corresponding to roughly 50 watts, or ten times the current 5 Watt threshold. I remember when my friend, K0YIP (sk), joined the group. He is still listed on the QRPARCI roster as member No. 32. I did not join the QRP club until much later after they settled on the 5 Watt limit, but I do have a "WAC QRP" award from them earned when the limit was 100 Watts.
 
K6AER makes a valid point concerning QRP achievements, though I would have stated it a bit more tactfully. I like what K0XX has on his QRZ page. John normally runs 100 watts, and he states: "Owing to the capabilities of those at the other end, I have earned: " He then goes on to list awards including #1 DXCC Honor Roll and 5B-WAZ (200 zones).
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N2RRA

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2021, 10:23:12 AM »

To all you guys and Gals.   For heavens sake ....just enjoy what you enjoy and let others do the same. Sometimes I run 5w, the lowest the rig will go, sometimes 100w and sometimes a full gallon.  Can we not have a Rodney King moment. Do what makes you happy and content without denigrating others that enjoy something different than you do. Can you use a 100w rig set to 5w and call it QRP.....why the heck not. In my opinion FT8 is a bunch of computers talking to each other and is not true ham radio but if it floats your boat do it and be happy. Its not for me but I do not think my opinion matters to anyone but me. Have fun it's a hobby! 73's David

Agree to a degree.

What does it matter you ask?

It matters when you have people cheating and stripping away from those who are legit. When that happens, is it fun? Is it right? Does that mean it’s okay to give in to the cancel all rules culture and so what if we cheat?

It’s unethical and that’s the point of the article. So yes, have fun but don’t call a lion a giraffe and bear a dog. QRP is designated under a guide line so yeah it matters.

Mean while, enjoy.

73
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KM1H

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2021, 10:35:53 AM »

Quote
On the other hand, imagine how much easier it would be to have two way qrp contacts without the noise and splatter created by people unnecessarily running thousands of watts...

Makes me wonder how many of those anti QRO whiners are out on the roads driving 400-700 hp vehicles.

Me, its a 105 hp 1.6L 94 Corolla for a daily beater, rust free and a 260K southern car, consistent 33-34 mpg. It was a freebie needing a complete exhaust. The modern car is a 18 Ford Fusion with a 1.5L Turbo, consistent 26-28 mpg.

For FUN its a 68 Impala SS convertible with a slightly modified ~400 hp original 396 325 hp block. Dual glasspacks that scares SUV's that try to pass on the inside and I drop down a gear and nail it and then let off and smile at the sound. 8)
Mpg ? dont ask but the gas tank is huge ;D as is the trunk. Used a lot for family vacations up into Canada with ham radio along for the ride.

Carl
Ham since 1955
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K3UIM

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2021, 11:06:33 AM »

Carl: "Dual glass packs that scares SUV's that try to pass on the inside and I drop down a gear and nail it and then let off and smile at the sound. 8)"
Sounds like my 40 Ford Coupe Deluxe in the late 50's.  ;D ;D ;D
Charlie
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Charlie. K3UIM
Where you are: I was!
Where I am: You will be!
So be nice to us old fogies!!

K6AER

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2021, 11:21:40 AM »

QRP is an operational output level.

Before you QRP operators get to proud making your WAS at 5 watts please give credit to all the stations you worked who bought good transceivers, located their stations in low noise areas and spent big bucks putting up efficient antennas to hear your puny signal and then bought amplifier so you could hear their signal with your minimalist, endfed wire, tossed over the tree.

Coming out of the last sun spot cycle I contend 100 watts to be QRP.

On the other hand, imagine how much easier it would be to have two way qrp contacts without the noise and splatter created by people unnecessarily running thousands of watts...

Splatter is a function of over driving signal level with modulation or over driving an amplifier.

In 61 years of this hobby I have never seen splatter in the CW portion of the band.
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K6AER

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2021, 11:32:35 AM »

QRP is an operational output level.

Before you QRP operators get to proud making your WAS at 5 watts please give credit to all the stations you worked who bought good transceivers, located their stations in low noise areas and spent big bucks putting up efficient antennas to hear your puny signal and then bought amplifier so you could hear their signal with your minimalist, endfed wire, tossed over the tree.

Coming out of the last sun spot cycle I contend 100 watts to be QRP.

There’s always a jerk in the bunch. Spare me the sarcasm. That’s what ruins the hobby.

The last few years in this “poor” solar cycle running QRP I’ve been able to work many DXpeditions and all over the world breaking pile ups to work those stations. I spent the entire 2019 year strictly QRP 24/7 7days a week 365 days of the entire 2019 year period and I managed to work the world and documented it taking video. Grant it, not easy to do and difficult indeed, but choosing the right antenna systems and working portable in the right locations was a strategic move and it paid off. Sometimes I get them in the first call, maybe third and sometimes the 15th call, but contact was made.

Weather I was running 5watts from my Yeasu FT817, or running 100 watts using the same exact antenna system the only difference was a weaker signal, but that’s a choice. Had nothing to do with only specifically the antenna systems the DX was using. Had everything to do with the antenna systems I put up. That’s running a yagi, or my EFHW. Where and how you install your antennas properly is all part of the game.

Anyway, every QRP’er has every right to be proud of running, enjoying and experimenting with QRP and being successful at it while those who like everything easy and dull continue to use their 100watts.

73

I noticed on our web page you proudly boast of your  Alpha 86,OM Power 2000+ and L7 amplifiers for daily operation.

Spare me your sarcasm.
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W7CXC

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2021, 11:40:37 AM »

RRA: Perhaps you took me wrong. I do not do QRP as part of my day to day operation. Just sometimes like to see how little power can be used to make a contact. Totally agree that if one CLAIMS to be running QRP for whatever reason, contest, award and so on then one needs to abide by the rules! IT MATTERS, YES! If not then whats the point! To hang something on the wall that says you worked Mars with a tenth of a watt when you used 500KW might look nice but who is one kidding, just yourself. Do think that if my 100w rig is cranked down to 5W that should qualify as QRP though.

Have been doing this since 1956 when working the world with a DX20 and a coat hanger ( not really but not a beam either) was easy. The last few years the gallon has been appreciated here in MT. Besides that warm glow is soothing and warms the shack. That video that was posted with the fellow sitting on a pier with the key in his lap using a small battery for power ... now that was awesome.

Very best regards and you enjoy as well David
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W1VT

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2021, 11:53:18 AM »

My last significant QRP award was working 1000 QRP ARCI members two way QRP CW.

I stopped hunting for two way QRP countries with a total in the 50s.
Why?  I realized that if I wanted to get on the CW Honor Roll, I'd better start while I was still young enough to be around for a few sunspot cycles.
I purchased a 100 watt rig in 2012 and a 600W amp in 2014, enabling me to boost my current confirmed CW total to 319.
I have a much better chance of reaching the Honor Roll than just a few years ago.

Zak W1VT
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N6MST

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2021, 12:34:55 PM »

QRP is designated under a guide line so yeah it matters.

No, it's really not. In general, yes, QRP means, to most people, 5W CW and maybe double that for sideband operation. But there is no authoritative ham radio law that determines those output power levels in the hobby.

In contests, when there is a QRP category, it is usually limited to the 5W/10W scheme, sometimes just 5W across the board, but that is because the contest organizers decided to have it that way. It is not canon.

I agree with you that if people are going to play and enter scores in contests they should play by the rules. Other than that, get over it and have your fun. Let others have their fun.
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KM1H

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2021, 01:11:46 PM »

Quote
I noticed on our web page you proudly boast of your  Alpha 86,OM Power 2000+ and L7 amplifiers for daily operation.

Spare me your sarcasm.

+1
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KM1H

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2021, 01:20:25 PM »

Quote
Sounds like my 40 Ford Coupe Deluxe in the late 50's.  ;D ;D ;D
Charlie
In those years mine was a 49 Ford 2dr and a 49 Olds that most called a bubble coupe, also my first OHV.

Dually glass packs on both.

Same years I graduated to my first homebrew AM/CW KW and then off to the USN to really get a fantastic education about this radio stuff which led to a lifelong career. ARRL and CQ pubs didnt cut it past the basics and I wasnt aware of what else was out there to study yet.

Carl
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