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Author Topic: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.  (Read 1204 times)

KD7RDZI2

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2021, 01:36:33 PM »

So what is QRP and why did I decide to write briefly about this topic?

Too many people are misinformed, or uneducated on the subject so let’s clarify a few things. When you buy that G90, G1M, Discovery TX500, Elecraft KX3, or any alike that’s capable of over 10watts it is NOT qrp. If you’re running 15-20 watts you are not QRP. I don’t think it’s cool to enter a contest as a QRP’er ripping off the guys that struggled actually running QRP weather to win a contest, or earn that QRP certificate. While the real QRP’er is working harder to boast about and be proud of making that difficult rare DX contact while you’re running 20watts doing the same is not something to be proud of.

I’ve been a ham for over 30 years and an avid hard core QRP’er and I had to have a number of QSO’s where I’ve had to debate with another what is QRP. I’ve been told that’s just my opinion, because CHINA calls their radios QRP radios. How asinine is that?

Here are a couple of links about QRP. One of them being a little history and story telling of how far back true QRP is rooted in this wonderful culture of ours. So please, think about the ethical and respectful aspect of QRP. Have a little dignity and moral value next time you’re running 20 watts claiming QRP.

This hobby is about having fun, but there are guidelines and fairness to all is what being an “Ambassador of Good Will” as an amateur radio operator is all about to one another. Besides! True QRP is challenging and challenges push’s you to becoming a better individual when you over come those challenges cause you earned it and you can wear that with a badge of honor and pride.

73!

https://www.n5dux.com/ham/files/pdf/QRP%20History%20-%20The%20Five-Watt%20QRP%20Movement%201968-1981.pdf

https://wd8rif.com/what_is_qrp.htm

I agree! I would add It Is not even ethical to define QRP my fixed frequency NS-40 transmitter (http://www.4sqrp.com/NS40.php). In fact it easily delivers 7 Watts. An IC-705  priced over 1000 USD is truly QRP!
« Last Edit: March 26, 2021, 01:40:26 PM by KD7RDZI2 »
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WA2ONH

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2021, 02:11:03 PM »

The definition of QRP has changed over the years. What is now the QRPARCI started out in the early 1960's with the limit being 100 watts (input power as we measured it in those days), corresponding to roughly 50 watts, or ten times the current 5 Watt threshold. I remember when my friend, K0YIP (sk), joined the group. He is still listed on the QRP-ARC Intl roster as member No. 32. I did not join the QRP club until much later after they settled on the 5 Watt limit, but I do have a "WAC QRP" award from them earned when the limit was 100 Watts.

Confirmed! "100 watts or less" level.

My QRP-ARC International membership certificate #420 dated Oct 11 1962 and
 WAS-QRP award #10 dated July 23 1963 both indicate "100 watts or less"

The Xmtr used at the time was a Heathkit DX-40 with 75 watts input; 6146 PA approx
 45 watts out.

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73 de WA2ONH  <dit dit> ... Charlie
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Never be satisfied with what you know, only with what more you can find out."
   Dr David Fairchild 1869-1954 US Scientist

N2RRA

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2021, 02:19:48 PM »

QRP is an operational output level.

Before you QRP operators get to proud making your WAS at 5 watts please give credit to all the stations you worked who bought good transceivers, located their stations in low noise areas and spent big bucks putting up efficient antennas to hear your puny signal and then bought amplifier so you could hear their signal with your minimalist, endfed wire, tossed over the tree.

Coming out of the last sun spot cycle I contend 100 watts to be QRP.

There’s always a jerk in the bunch. Spare me the sarcasm. That’s what ruins the hobby.

The last few years in this “poor” solar cycle running QRP I’ve been able to work many DXpeditions and all over the world breaking pile ups to work those stations. I spent the entire 2019 year strictly QRP 24/7 7days a week 365 days of the entire 2019 year period and I managed to work the world and documented it taking video. Grant it, not easy to do and difficult indeed, but choosing the right antenna systems and working portable in the right locations was a strategic move and it paid off. Sometimes I get them in the first call, maybe third and sometimes the 15th call, but contact was made.

Weather I was running 5watts from my Yeasu FT817, or running 100 watts using the same exact antenna system the only difference was a weaker signal, but that’s a choice. Had nothing to do with only specifically the antenna systems the DX was using. Had everything to do with the antenna systems I put up. That’s running a yagi, or my EFHW. Where and how you install your antennas properly is all part of the game.

Anyway, every QRP’er has every right to be proud of running, enjoying and experimenting with QRP and being successful at it while those who like everything easy and dull continue to use their 100watts.

73

I noticed on our web page you proudly boast of your  Alpha 86,OM Power 2000+ and L7 amplifiers for daily operation.

Spare me your sarcasm.

YUP, and below that a QRP awards plaque and QRP videos. Not so smart are ya?

There are people that make people like myself hate the human race. You once again prove my point.

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K6AER

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2021, 03:10:04 PM »

QRP is an operational output level.

Before you QRP operators get to proud making your WAS at 5 watts please give credit to all the stations you worked who bought good transceivers, located their stations in low noise areas and spent big bucks putting up efficient antennas to hear your puny signal and then bought amplifier so you could hear their signal with your minimalist, endfed wire, tossed over the tree.

Coming out of the last sun spot cycle I contend 100 watts to be QRP.

There’s always a jerk in the bunch. Spare me the sarcasm. That’s what ruins the hobby.

The last few years in this “poor” solar cycle running QRP I’ve been able to work many DXpeditions and all over the world breaking pile ups to work those stations. I spent the entire 2019 year strictly QRP 24/7 7days a week 365 days of the entire 2019 year period and I managed to work the world and documented it taking video. Grant it, not easy to do and difficult indeed, but choosing the right antenna systems and working portable in the right locations was a strategic move and it paid off. Sometimes I get them in the first call, maybe third and sometimes the 15th call, but contact was made.

Weather I was running 5watts from my Yeasu FT817, or running 100 watts using the same exact antenna system the only difference was a weaker signal, but that’s a choice. Had nothing to do with only specifically the antenna systems the DX was using. Had everything to do with the antenna systems I put up. That’s running a yagi, or my EFHW. Where and how you install your antennas properly is all part of the game.

Anyway, every QRP’er has every right to be proud of running, enjoying and experimenting with QRP and being successful at it while those who like everything easy and dull continue to use their 100watts.

73

I noticed on our web page you proudly boast of your  Alpha 86,OM Power 2000+ and L7 amplifiers for daily operation.

Spare me your sarcasm.

YUP, and below that a QRP awards plaque and QRP videos. Not so smart are ya?

There are people that make people like myself hate the human race. You once again prove my point.

"Not so smart are ya?"

I have a masters degree in Electrical Engineering. I'm a retired RF engineer. I got m Extra at thee age of 14. Why don't you get your Extra.

I'll give you credit, in my 61 years of ham radio you are the first to display a whiskey bottle in your shack picture. What is up with that?
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N6YWU

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2021, 04:09:42 PM »

There also seems to be some difference of opinion on whether 1 Watt (CW or digital) should be called QRP or QRPp.
Some say 1W is QRPp. 
Some you have to turn down the power to no more than 3 digits of milliWatts.

Also, some QRP contests allow stacked Yagi's on a tower.  But I've heard there's at least one QRP contest that restricts the antenna system to a single element wire or dipole.
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KX4OM

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2021, 08:10:30 PM »

---------------------
Have been doing this since 1956 when working the world with a DX20 and a coat hanger ( not really but not a beam either) was easy. The last few years the gallon has been appreciated here in MT. Besides that warm glow is soothing and warms the shack. That video that was posted with the fellow sitting on a pier with the key in his lap using a small battery for power ... now that was awesome.

Very best regards and you enjoy as well David
I worked all James Street with my DX-20 and a light bulb in 1959 :-)

Ted, KX4OM
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N8AUC

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #36 on: March 28, 2021, 05:57:35 AM »

Well, taken literally, QRP is a Q code that means to reduce your transmitter power. It can be a question, or a statement.

Like many things, it's a relative term. An operator that normally operates with a kilowatt amplifier may say that operation without an amp (100w output or so) is QRP. And for them, it would seem that way. But for me, who never uses an amplifier, 100W is not QRP, it's maximum output.

The way I've always heard it, and interpret it, is that QRP operation means a transmitter output of 5W. Somewhere along the way, someone coined the term QRPp, which means lower than 5 watts output. I've never seen an authoritative definition of what that actually means, but I suspect it means an output of 1 watt or lower.

Now how do you get to QRP? Seems to me there are two ways to do that. One is to build or buy a minimalist rig that produces not more than 5 watts of RF output. The other is to take any rig, and turn down the RF output to 5 watts max. In a contest situation, that might be a better choice, because a normal 100W rig probably has a better receiver, with more interference fighting features, than a minimalist QRP rig.

Which of those methods is best for you? Again, it depends. If you're operating from home, and available power isn't an issue, then take the normal rig and turn down the output power to get to the 5W level. But if you're operating away from home, and you have to carry your power source with you, then you may want a power sipping minimalist little radio to extend battery life and operating run time. Got solar? Then extending battery life is no longer an issue, so maybe you use the normal rig with the better receiver. It's all a trade off, and you have to decide which method is best for you given the circumstances, and the various operating constraints those circumstances will present.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2021, 06:08:03 AM by N8AUC »
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KM1H

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #37 on: March 28, 2021, 01:43:21 PM »

Quote
Like many things, it's a relative term. An operator that normally operates with a kilowatt amplifier may say that operation without an amp (100w output or so) is QRP.

I run 100W most of the time on an uncrowded band but when the going gets tough the 1200W button is pressed; that usually clears the frequency and my conversations can resume.
Many hams like to try and show others how tuff they are and start talking over an existing QSO.....that doesnt work with me 8)

Most bullies are cowards

Carl
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N2RRA

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #38 on: March 28, 2021, 08:51:54 PM »

Quote
Like many things, it's a relative term. An operator that normally operates with a kilowatt amplifier may say that operation without an amp (100w output or so) is QRP.

I run 100W most of the time on an uncrowded band but when the going gets tough the 1200W button is pressed; that usually clears the frequency and my conversations can resume.
Many hams like to try and show others how tuff they are and start talking over an existing QSO.....that doesnt work with me 8)

Most bullies are cowards

Carl

I agree totally. Bullies can also be identified as those who insult, degrade, belittle, defame, use sarcasm to inflate their egos on others I guess to feed their narcism, because it makes them feel good, or used to compensate their short comings.

We see a lot of that out here lately.
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N2RRA

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #39 on: March 28, 2021, 09:03:07 PM »

QRP is an operational output level.

Before you QRP operators get to proud making your WAS at 5 watts please give credit to all the stations you worked who bought good transceivers, located their stations in low noise areas and spent big bucks putting up efficient antennas to hear your puny signal and then bought amplifier so you could hear their signal with your minimalist, endfed wire, tossed over the tree.

Coming out of the last sun spot cycle I contend 100 watts to be QRP.

There’s always a jerk in the bunch. Spare me the sarcasm. That’s what ruins the hobby.

The last few years in this “poor” solar cycle running QRP I’ve been able to work many DXpeditions and all over the world breaking pile ups to work those stations. I spent the entire 2019 year strictly QRP 24/7 7days a week 365 days of the entire 2019 year period and I managed to work the world and documented it taking video. Grant it, not easy to do and difficult indeed, but choosing the right antenna systems and working portable in the right locations was a strategic move and it paid off. Sometimes I get them in the first call, maybe third and sometimes the 15th call, but contact was made.

Weather I was running 5watts from my Yeasu FT817, or running 100 watts using the same exact antenna system the only difference was a weaker signal, but that’s a choice. Had nothing to do with only specifically the antenna systems the DX was using. Had everything to do with the antenna systems I put up. That’s running a yagi, or my EFHW. Where and how you install your antennas properly is all part of the game.

Anyway, every QRP’er has every right to be proud of running, enjoying and experimenting with QRP and being successful at it while those who like everything easy and dull continue to use their 100watts.

73

I noticed on our web page you proudly boast of your  Alpha 86,OM Power 2000+ and L7 amplifiers for daily operation.

Spare me your sarcasm.

YUP, and below that a QRP awards plaque and QRP videos. Not so smart are ya?

There are people that make people like myself hate the human race. You once again prove my point.

"Not so smart are ya?"

I have a masters degree in Electrical Engineering. I'm a retired RF engineer. I got m Extra at thee age of 14. Why don't you get your Extra.

I'll give you credit, in my 61 years of ham radio you are the first to display a whiskey bottle in your shack picture. What is up with that?

Anyone can be book smart and earn a degree, but that doesn’t mean they have common sense, logic, and intelligence.

For example, you’re first mistake on your first attack about my amps was not looking me up on QRZ like you did the first time instead for N2RRA/qrp. Now you can take that sarcasm and shove it. Should’ve mentioned that in the first place, but waiting for this moment worked out better. Proves you have no common sense to look it up. It also shows your lack of logic and intelligence on other levels. Shows you’re nothing, but a internet keyboard warrior troll bullying people online.

As for my whiskey bottle, LOL. Now you’re reaching for anything to do what you do best and unnecessarily. It shows I can sit back and enjoy a shot, or two after a long day by my radio like some grown ups do with a cigarette, or a cigar. No different, but I pity you. I pity you cause you with all the engineering intelligence in the world you would stoop to the childish level to point that out and ask such a stupid question.

Anyway, nice showing how petty you are.

73, I forgive you.
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G8FXC

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2021, 12:02:38 AM »

Is that 5 watts qrp defined as power out of the transmitter or power at the antenna input?

What if you have that 10 watt radio and 3 db coax loss then that's 5 watts to the antenna.

I was going to say similar... On this side of the pond, we are being forced to prepare for the introduction of EMF exposure regulations and I ran my configuration through the official calculator a few days ago. It told me that, on most bands, I would be lucky to actually radiate 10% of what my rig pushes into the coax - so I'm close to QRP all the time - even running the rig at the full 100W!

Martin (G8FXC)
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N2RRA

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #41 on: March 29, 2021, 08:05:51 AM »

Is that 5 watts qrp defined as power out of the transmitter or power at the antenna input?

What if you have that 10 watt radio and 3 db coax loss then that's 5 watts to the antenna.

I was going to say similar... On this side of the pond, we are being forced to prepare for the introduction of EMF exposure regulations and I ran my configuration through the official calculator a few days ago. It told me that, on most bands, I would be lucky to actually radiate 10% of what my rig pushes into the coax - so I'm close to QRP all the time - even running the rig at the full 100W!

Martin (G8FXC)

If your running 100watts, but calculate if you were actually running QRP at 5 to 10watts. What’s your exposure to EMF then?

Wonder why they would develop such a survey. What’s the purpose, or possible agenda? I had heard some time back they wanted to reduce your licensed output level. For example, your 400watt Max to 10watts. If they did that you’d be forced into QRP. How could they do that? Government can do anything cause what are you gonna do? Start a revolution with rocks? Sounds crazy they would try, but that’s what a UK ham had mentioned and plays in my imagination why they’d introduce curriculum.

Large amounts of EMF exposure to humans have proven to effect a persons consciousness and other physical issues. Creates paranoia and other health issues. Wonder if that’s going to be their argument on a health level, or environmental in the future.

None the less, I think that’s a waste of time. Hams that been doing this for over 60 years are alive and well. So what’s the purpose?
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N8AUC

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #42 on: March 29, 2021, 02:42:23 PM »

Large amounts of EMF exposure to humans have proven to effect a persons consciousness and other physical issues.

Maybe that's my problem. Been a ham for 43 years. I should be pretty much "RF-ified" by now!
Never mind that curious twitch I have.....LOL!

The FCC in the US has had their RF exposure guidelines for some time now. We're all supposed to have conducted RF exposure surveys on our stations, and retain that information with our station records. Basically, anything under 50 watts, and it's not supposed to be an issue, at least on the frequencies where I usually tend to operate.

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KM1H

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #43 on: March 29, 2021, 07:15:56 PM »

Its 66 years for me and never bored working on stuff or OTA on AM where its easy to find intelligent people and conversations.

Thankfully AM's continual rebirth keeps it as a mode in all/most of the new gear and decent percentage of new AMers are using rice boxes...PLUS the SDRs sounds like broadcast stations once they get it dialed in.

Carl
Ham since 1955
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WW5F

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #44 on: March 30, 2021, 04:17:17 AM »

Here is just another example of semantic drift which is causing unnecessary anxiety and strife among those using that term.

Semantic drift has accelerated in our time thanks to the internet.

The original meaning of the Q-code "QRP" has no mention of a specific power level.

"QPR" is a statement - Decrease transmitter power.

"QRP?" is a question - Shall I decrease transmitter power?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_code

Because many "QRP" contests define an entry classification of "QRP" being 5 watts or less, people *now* think QRP *means* 5 watts or less.

Let me just say this:  GAME SHOW BUZZ!  WRONG ANSWER.

Most new amateur transmitters run 100 watts today.  So those radios like the G90, G1M, Discovery TX500, Elecraft KX3 are technically QRP from the average new amateur radio transmitter.

Military transmitters running 100 watts are considered "low power" in all the documentation I read back when I was a communications officer in the Air Force.  I run "military QRP" all the time.

I demand everybody use and instinctively know the meanings of the words I use as *I* know and use the meanings of those words within the small group of people I use those words within.  See the real problem now?
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