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Author Topic: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.  (Read 1206 times)

G8FXC

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #45 on: March 30, 2021, 09:45:36 AM »

...

If your running 100watts, but calculate if you were actually running QRP at 5 to 10watts. What’s your exposure to EMF then?

Wonder why they would develop such a survey. What’s the purpose, or possible agenda? I had heard some time back they wanted to reduce your licensed output level. For example, your 400watt Max to 10watts. If they did that you’d be forced into QRP. How could they do that? Government can do anything cause what are you gonna do? Start a revolution with rocks? Sounds crazy they would try, but that’s what a UK ham had mentioned and plays in my imagination why they’d introduce curriculum.

Large amounts of EMF exposure to humans have proven to effect a persons consciousness and other physical issues. Creates paranoia and other health issues. Wonder if that’s going to be their argument on a health level, or environmental in the future.

None the less, I think that’s a waste of time. Hams that been doing this for over 60 years are alive and well. So what’s the purpose?

I think you are misunderstanding me..... There have been rules governing maximum EMF exposure in existence for many years, but they have only been applied to commercial users - cellphone towers, TV transmitters - that sort of thing. OFCOM have now decided that all users of radio transmitters must obey them - I've also received a notice of licence variation for the VHF and radar installed on our sailing yacht.

OFCOM (our FCC) have tried to make it easy - they have published a simple spreadsheet to help. You key in information about your transmitting equipment and it churns out a report designed to indicate if you need to get an expert assessment carried out. On our boat, for example, I key in the power output level and frequency of the VHF and the height of the antenna above deck level and it tells me that I don't need to go any further - the minimum separation distance for that frequency and power level is 1.5m and the antenna is at the top of a 15m mast, so there is no risk to the public.

Where my ham station is concerned, I keyed in the details of the transmitter, feeder, antenna position and antenna design and it told me that it estimated that no more than 10W of the 100W output of my transmitter would actually get radiated into the aether and, hence, it really didn't think that I needed to go any further with the assessment!

Martin (G8FXC)
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W7CXC

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #46 on: March 30, 2021, 12:48:54 PM »

OMG... Used to be on a radar site in the PI back in the early 60's. 5 Mw, L band height finder and 1 Mw, X band area search. Site shared a fence with VOA Poro Point transmiting location that had about a half dozen or more 35 45 and 50KW transmitters on SW and the "Big Guy" 1 Mw output 1140 kc AM transmitter. Google "walace air station" for photos. Now lets talk about RF exposure. Perhaps that explains whats been wrong with me all these years ::)
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N2RRA

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #47 on: March 30, 2021, 07:34:56 PM »

Here is just another example of semantic drift which is causing unnecessary anxiety and strife among those using that term.

Semantic drift has accelerated in our time thanks to the internet.

The original meaning of the Q-code "QRP" has no mention of a specific power level.

"QPR" is a statement - Decrease transmitter power.

"QRP?" is a question - Shall I decrease transmitter power?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_code

Because many "QRP" contests define an entry classification of "QRP" being 5 watts or less, people *now* think QRP *means* 5 watts or less.

Let me just say this:  GAME SHOW BUZZ!  WRONG ANSWER.

Most new amateur transmitters run 100 watts today.  So those radios like the G90, G1M, Discovery TX500, Elecraft KX3 are technically QRP from the average new amateur radio transmitter.

Military transmitters running 100 watts are considered "low power" in all the documentation I read back when I was a communications officer in the Air Force.  I run "military QRP" all the time.

I demand everybody use and instinctively know the meanings of the words I use as *I* know and use the meanings of those words within the small group of people I use those words within.  See the real problem now?

We’re not living in 1956 anymore and just more semantics.

In today’s world and in this time period QRP is classified in Amateur Radio and not by 1950’s military classification as 10watts Max on SSB and 5watts CW, or > less. Especially running contests are competing for an award/certificate. Period!

That’s why I’ve specifically mentioned the significance of this topic. So although we know the history of the QRP origin and definition back in the 1950’s till date they too recognized a far more lower power than 100watts under 10watts as QRP.

Not sure how much more clear cut it can be.
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N2RRA

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #48 on: March 30, 2021, 07:37:57 PM »

Large amounts of EMF exposure to humans have proven to effect a persons consciousness and other physical issues.

Maybe that's my problem. Been a ham for 43 years. I should be pretty much "RF-ified" by now!
Never mind that curious twitch I have.....LOL!

The FCC in the US has had their RF exposure guidelines for some time now. We're all supposed to have conducted RF exposure surveys on our stations, and retain that information with our station records. Basically, anything under 50 watts, and it's not supposed to be an issue, at least on the frequencies where I usually tend to operate.

Twitch? What TWI TWI TWITCH? LOL

Makes two of us, LOL. From an electrical grid stand point like near huge power lines, or even your home electrical panel is what I should have been more specific.
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N2RRA

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #49 on: March 30, 2021, 07:42:26 PM »

...

If your running 100watts, but calculate if you were actually running QRP at 5 to 10watts. What’s your exposure to EMF then?

Wonder why they would develop such a survey. What’s the purpose, or possible agenda? I had heard some time back they wanted to reduce your licensed output level. For example, your 400watt Max to 10watts. If they did that you’d be forced into QRP. How could they do that? Government can do anything cause what are you gonna do? Start a revolution with rocks? Sounds crazy they would try, but that’s what a UK ham had mentioned and plays in my imagination why they’d introduce curriculum.

Large amounts of EMF exposure to humans have proven to effect a persons consciousness and other physical issues. Creates paranoia and other health issues. Wonder if that’s going to be their argument on a health level, or environmental in the future.

None the less, I think that’s a waste of time. Hams that been doing this for over 60 years are alive and well. So what’s the purpose?

I think you are misunderstanding me..... There have been rules governing maximum EMF exposure in existence for many years, but they have only been applied to commercial users - cellphone towers, TV transmitters - that sort of thing. OFCOM have now decided that all users of radio transmitters must obey them - I've also received a notice of licence variation for the VHF and radar installed on our sailing yacht.

OFCOM (our FCC) have tried to make it easy - they have published a simple spreadsheet to help. You key in information about your transmitting equipment and it churns out a report designed to indicate if you need to get an expert assessment carried out. On our boat, for example, I key in the power output level and frequency of the VHF and the height of the antenna above deck level and it tells me that I don't need to go any further - the minimum separation distance for that frequency and power level is 1.5m and the antenna is at the top of a 15m mast, so there is no risk to the public.

Where my ham station is concerned, I keyed in the details of the transmitter, feeder, antenna position and antenna design and it told me that it estimated that no more than 10W of the 100W output of my transmitter would actually get radiated into the aether and, hence, it really didn't think that I needed to go any further with the assessment!

Martin (G8FXC)

Perhaps I did. Someone state side just mentioned I think we’re supposed to do it to, but we don’t. Hams generations prior to me still in existence still live healthy lives and all the kilowatts they’ve been exposed to over the half century as hams hasn’t done them in so that’s all the science survey I need.
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G8FXC

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #50 on: March 31, 2021, 12:11:18 AM »

...

Perhaps I did. Someone state side just mentioned I think we’re supposed to do it to, but we don’t. Hams generations prior to me still in existence still live healthy lives and all the kilowatts they’ve been exposed to over the half century as hams hasn’t done them in so that’s all the science survey I need.

At least round here, the owner of the station is exempt from the rules. OFCOM are effectively saying "Thou shalt not cook thy neighbour!" - for the frequencies, antennae and power levels that I run, the minimum separation distance is coming out at two or three metres, so it is not too difficult for me to obey - I think I'll need to move a wire dipole that is too close to the boundary of my property, but that's about the limit of it. Stations running higher power levels into better antennae might have a problem though.

Martin
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WW5F

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #51 on: March 31, 2021, 06:09:44 AM »

Here is just another example of semantic drift which is causing unnecessary anxiety and strife among those using that term.

Semantic drift has accelerated in our time thanks to the internet.

The original meaning of the Q-code "QRP" has no mention of a specific power level.

"QPR" is a statement - Decrease transmitter power.

"QRP?" is a question - Shall I decrease transmitter power?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_code

Because many "QRP" contests define an entry classification of "QRP" being 5 watts or less, people *now* think QRP *means* 5 watts or less.

Let me just say this:  GAME SHOW BUZZ!  WRONG ANSWER.

Most new amateur transmitters run 100 watts today.  So those radios like the G90, G1M, Discovery TX500, Elecraft KX3 are technically QRP from the average new amateur radio transmitter.

Military transmitters running 100 watts are considered "low power" in all the documentation I read back when I was a communications officer in the Air Force.  I run "military QRP" all the time.

I demand everybody use and instinctively know the meanings of the words I use as *I* know and use the meanings of those words within the small group of people I use those words within.  See the real problem now?

We’re not living in 1956 anymore and just more semantics.

In today’s world and in this time period QRP is classified in Amateur Radio and not by 1950’s military classification as 10watts Max on SSB and 5watts CW, or > less. Especially running contests are competing for an award/certificate. Period!

That’s why I’ve specifically mentioned the significance of this topic. So although we know the history of the QRP origin and definition back in the 1950’s till date they too recognized a far more lower power than 100watts under 10watts as QRP.

Not sure how much more clear cut it can be.

Well ok then.

I've come to learn arguing semantics is pointless.  Outsiders can't tell which side has any credibility.

On a broader note I'd like to point out one of the reasons we seem to be breaking down as a society is because we are losing control of any standards in the English language.  It's called progress, I guess.
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KM1H

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #52 on: March 31, 2021, 11:34:03 AM »

Quote
Military transmitters running 100 watts are considered "low power" in all the documentation I read back when I was a communications officer in the Air Force.  I run "military QRP" all the time.

Are you "trying" to tell us that military aircraft with 100W is considered low power? I beg to differ as each installation is based upon the COMMUNICATIONS NEEDS of that particular service. I do not see any power classification in any military manual or requests for bids.

Modern USAF military radios are able to self adjust power levels as well as electronically steer and configure the beamwidth. Ones in the F-35 are fully SDR
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WW5F

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #53 on: March 31, 2021, 12:37:12 PM »

I worked on the ground side of aircraft radios only.
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W7CXC

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #54 on: March 31, 2021, 12:50:47 PM »

GRC27 Perhaps
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N2RRA

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #55 on: April 01, 2021, 05:46:21 AM »

Here is just another example of semantic drift which is causing unnecessary anxiety and strife among those using that term.

Semantic drift has accelerated in our time thanks to the internet.

The original meaning of the Q-code "QRP" has no mention of a specific power level.

"QPR" is a statement - Decrease transmitter power.

"QRP?" is a question - Shall I decrease transmitter power?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_code

Because many "QRP" contests define an entry classification of "QRP" being 5 watts or less, people *now* think QRP *means* 5 watts or less.

Let me just say this:  GAME SHOW BUZZ!  WRONG ANSWER.

Most new amateur transmitters run 100 watts today.  So those radios like the G90, G1M, Discovery TX500, Elecraft KX3 are technically QRP from the average new amateur radio transmitter.

Military transmitters running 100 watts are considered "low power" in all the documentation I read back when I was a communications officer in the Air Force.  I run "military QRP" all the time.

I demand everybody use and instinctively know the meanings of the words I use as *I* know and use the meanings of those words within the small group of people I use those words within.  See the real problem now?

We’re not living in 1956 anymore and just more semantics.

In today’s world and in this time period QRP is classified in Amateur Radio and not by 1950’s military classification as 10watts Max on SSB and 5watts CW, or > less. Especially running contests are competing for an award/certificate. Period!

That’s why I’ve specifically mentioned the significance of this topic. So although we know the history of the QRP origin and definition back in the 1950’s till date they too recognized a far more lower power than 100watts under 10watts as QRP.

Not sure how much more clear cut it can be.

Well ok then.

I've come to learn arguing semantics is pointless.  Outsiders can't tell which side has any credibility.

On a broader note I'd like to point out one of the reasons we seem to be breaking down as a society is because we are losing control of any standards in the English language.  It's called progress, I guess.

Again, semantics.

If your version of progress we keep hearing and seeing in society today is what you’re referring too then we’re all screwed. Just like your military 100watt QRP story.

Good day and 73
« Last Edit: April 01, 2021, 05:50:11 AM by N2RRA »
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N2RRA

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #56 on: April 01, 2021, 05:48:43 AM »

I worked on the ground side of aircraft radios only.

LOL, ground or air RF power level is RF power level. It’s not gonna change.

🤦🏼‍♂️🤣

P.S. LOVE your QRZ.page. I couldn’t agree with you more. 👍🏼
« Last Edit: April 01, 2021, 05:54:49 AM by N2RRA »
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G8FXC

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #57 on: April 01, 2021, 06:34:32 AM »

A couple of years ago, we replaced the radar on our yacht with one of the new high-tech 3G radar scanners. We keep the boat in a marina close to Portsmouth - the main British naval dockyards - and several of the other owners in the marina are naval crew. I was telling one of our neighbours about how wonderful the new 3G radars are and remarked that it could even "track that swan swimming on the other side of the river". He replied with a grin that my radar might be able to track the swan, but his could cook it!

Martin (G8FXC)
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N2RRA

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Re: What is QRP? Is a 20watt rig QRP? NO, it’s not.
« Reply #58 on: April 01, 2021, 10:56:32 AM »

A couple of years ago, we replaced the radar on our yacht with one of the new high-tech 3G radar scanners. We keep the boat in a marina close to Portsmouth - the main British naval dockyards - and several of the other owners in the marina are naval crew. I was telling one of our neighbours about how wonderful the new 3G radars are and remarked that it could even "track that swan swimming on the other side of the river". He replied with a grin that my radar might be able to track the swan, but his could cook it!

Martin (G8FXC)

LOL
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