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Author Topic: Hamtronics R302  (Read 204 times)

N2AYM

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Hamtronics R302
« on: April 07, 2021, 07:17:10 AM »

Anyone know how to hookup a R302 to a TD5 decoder/encoder?
I will only be using the decoder and not the encoder portion.
I already have the ground and +12V connections done - just need the rest.
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KA5IPF

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Re: Hamtronics R302
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2021, 07:22:24 AM »

Short answer, route discriminator audio thru the tone decode board.

Long answer go to  http://www.repeater-builder.com/hamtronics/pdf1/TD5.pdf

Installation instructions.
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N2AYM

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Re: Hamtronics R302
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2021, 07:32:10 AM »

Short answer, route discriminator audio thru the tone decode board.

Long answer go to  http://www.repeater-builder.com/hamtronics/pdf1/TD5.pdf

Installation instructions.

This does not answer my question - i already have this pdf above and the info i seek is not in it.
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W1BR

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Re: Hamtronics R302
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2021, 09:12:54 AM »

Where is your confusion?  At PL encoder/decoder, or at the receiver?  Post a link to the RX schematic and someone will advise where to connect the decoder.
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N2AYM

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Re: Hamtronics R302
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2021, 10:57:15 AM »

Where is your confusion?  At PL encoder/decoder, or at the receiver?  Post a link to the RX schematic and someone will advise where to connect the decoder.

Sorry - at work trying to do 20 things before I leave work and should have mentioned that there is an
ID-O-Mattic II controller in this configuration.  The R302 provides RX audio to the controller Pin 8(purple)
and if I use the purple wire routed to the TD5 E3 RX In --> E4 Rx out then there is no way to get RX Disc
into the TD5 E3 input hence my confusion. I was originally asking for an opinion on TD5 to R302 pin by pin connection.
NOTE: All 3 of these are on the net in pdf form.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 11:00:16 AM by N2AYM »
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N2AYM

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Re: Hamtronics R302
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2021, 06:47:34 AM »

Where is your confusion?  At PL encoder/decoder, or at the receiver?  Post a link to the RX schematic and someone will advise where to connect the decoder.

Sorry - at work trying to do 20 things before I leave work and should have mentioned that there is an
ID-O-Mattic II controller in this configuration.  The R302 provides RX audio to the controller Pin 8(purple)
and if I use the purple wire routed to the TD5 E3 RX In --> E4 Rx out then there is no way to get RX Disc
into the TD5 E3 input hence my confusion. I was originally asking for an opinion on TD5 to R302 pin by pin connection.
NOTE: All 3 of these are on the net in pdf form.

Someone more familiar with Hamtronics products must have an idea. Hard to believe no one on this website
has responded yet with all of the communications guru's that lurk here.  :'(
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KA5IPF

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Re: Hamtronics R302
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2021, 10:22:18 AM »

From looking at both schematics E4 on the R302 is Discriminator audio out and E3 on the TD-5 is audio in.
Ergo: Hook E4 to E3. Now what do you want to do when a tone is detected?
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N2AYM

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Re: Hamtronics R302
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2021, 01:17:57 PM »

From looking at both schematics E4 on the R302 is Discriminator audio out and E3 on the TD-5 is audio in.
Ergo: Hook E4 to E3. Now what do you want to do when a tone is detected?

You have your question backwards - When no tone is detected I need the repeat function disabled.
Repeat function should only work properly when the proper tone is detected.
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KA5IPF

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Re: Hamtronics R302
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2021, 08:16:29 PM »

I don't have it backwards, but I do give up. The TD-5 schematic and instructions plainly explain and show how to do what you want.
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WB0DZX

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Re: Hamtronics R302
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2021, 04:30:52 AM »

I might be mistaken but it seems the confusion of the OP may be in the many signaling options available.
   
Connecting receiver audio from E4 (note 1 from R302 manual) to TD5 E3 "AF in" (see note 2 from TD5  manual) along with a COR "signal" will *** ONLY when the receiver audio has the proper tone and the levels are in tolerance ***:
A. Key the repeater/link transmitter
B. Pass the audio to the transmitter
C. Upon LOS initiate the transmitter hang time or, if it's time, the CW ID
That's minimal repeater/link operation.
 
Beyond simply COR activation with receiver tone and audio, there's not many other repeater/link options to be considered unless a complicated repeater controller is installed.
   
Note 1 from R302 manual:
Subaudible  Tone  Decoder. To  use  our  TD-5  Subaudible  Tone Decoder or  a  similar  module, connect its  audio  input to  DISCRIMINATOR terminal  E4.   If  you  want  to  use  it to mute  the  audio  (instead  of  inhibiting  a repeater  transmitter  as  is  normally done),  connect  the mute  output  of the TD-5  to  E1  on  the receiver.
   
Note 2 from TD-5 manual:
Audio Input. Audio from the receiver normally should be picked up from the discriminator for connection to E3. Later model Hamtronics® receivers have  a terminal on the receiver for the discriminator audio.  On earlier models or on other brands of receivers which do not have a dedicated terminal, the discriminator audio is accessible at the resistor/capacitor junction of the de-emphasis network.
   
Mike WBØDZX
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N2AYM

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Re: Hamtronics R302
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2021, 08:39:45 AM »

I might be mistaken but it seems the confusion of the OP may be in the many signaling options available.
   
Connecting receiver audio from E4 (note 1 from R302 manual) to TD5 E3 "AF in" (see note 2 from TD5  manual) along with a COR "signal" will *** ONLY when the receiver audio has the proper tone and the levels are in tolerance ***:
A. Key the repeater/link transmitter
B. Pass the audio to the transmitter
C. Upon LOS initiate the transmitter hang time or, if it's time, the CW ID
That's minimal repeater/link operation.
 
Beyond simply COR activation with receiver tone and audio, there's not many other repeater/link options to be considered unless a complicated repeater controller is installed.
   
Note 1 from R302 manual:
Subaudible  Tone  Decoder. To  use  our  TD-5  Subaudible  Tone Decoder or  a  similar  module, connect its  audio  input to  DISCRIMINATOR terminal  E4.   If  you  want  to  use  it to mute  the  audio  (instead  of  inhibiting  a repeater  transmitter  as  is  normally done),  connect  the mute  output  of the TD-5  to  E1  on  the receiver.
   
Note 2 from TD-5 manual:
Audio Input. Audio from the receiver normally should be picked up from the discriminator for connection to E3. Later model Hamtronics® receivers have  a terminal on the receiver for the discriminator audio.  On earlier models or on other brands of receivers which do not have a dedicated terminal, the discriminator audio is accessible at the resistor/capacitor junction of the de-emphasis network.
   
Mike WBØDZX

No Mike - what has me confused is the controller is already hooked up to the R302. The R302 E5(COS) is already hooked up to Pin 7 on the controller and R302 E1 (AF) is already hooked up to the controller Pin 8. Perhaps your terminology has me confused also - there is no
reference in any of these doc's to "mute  output" as you call it. I can route the R302 E4(Disc) to the TD5 E3(AF in) but after that there must
be something more that either detects "correct" or "wrong/no tone" that i have not considered. I am not familiar enough with these hamtronics
modules to fully understand them hence my need for a way to enable or disable the "repeater" function. I am also not familiar enough with
this ID-Omatic II controller.
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WB0DZX

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Re: Hamtronics R302
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2021, 11:20:42 AM »

Again please correct me if I have any of the following incorrect:
A. The mute audio connection is seldom, if ever, used in ham radio applications. It is for commercial applications way beyond ham radio. I included it in the manual excerpt as a "prompt" to see if you were making use of it. And apparently you are not.
B. You will need to disconnect the "controller" (ID-O-MATIC-II) from the R302 receiver and insert the TD-5 in between.
C. When programmed and powered, the TD-5's U1 not only determines the correct/wrong/no tone, it also appropriately sends (or not) receiver audio and associated signaling.
D. To enable/disable the repeat function, so the receiver can in no way activate the transmitter, there are several possibilities. However, the simplest might be to add a SPST toggle switch to the TD-5's +12V input line. The toggle should point toward the TD-5 like an arrow when the switch is on. Don't switch the ground. Alternately see Note 1 below -- BUT that way is more of a logic high/low for the audio path AND has potential issues.
   
Note 1 (excerpt from TD-5 manual):
Repeater Inhibit Connections. An output transistor in the TD-5 provides a ground at E6 when no tone is present and an open circuit when the proper tone is received.  In a repeater, this switched output normally is used to inhibit the repeater by grounding the COS signal from the receiver to the COR board in the  repeater. The easiest place to connect is at the feedthrough capacitor used to carry the COS signal through the receiver partition.
 
Are we both on the right track now? If not...more input...
   
Mike WBØDZX
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N2AYM

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Re: Hamtronics R302
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2021, 05:52:17 AM »

Mike - cannot disconnect the controller. It controls the periodic cw identifier which is a fcc requirement for unattended operation.
I have been searching for a way to hookup(hence my post) and use the TD5's RX tone or perhaps another manufacture tone board
would be a better option?
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WB0DZX

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Re: Hamtronics R302
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2021, 11:53:41 AM »

A. The "controller" (ID-O-MATTIC-II) would remain connected to the repeater as is, providing everything works in plain ol' carrier squelch.
B. The "controller" has the inherent ability to, if programmed to NOT be courteous, superimpose (simultaneously) the CW ID or other valid CW message underneath the unsquelched receiver audio.
C. If the "controller" is programmed to be courteous, it waits the time allotted after the receiver becomes squelched.
D. B and C hold true even when the receiver audio is intercepted by a properly connected (between the receiver and "controller" and programmed TD-5 tone decoder providing the audio to the "controller." When a TD-5 is used, no receiver audio is to be directly connected to the "controller" or repeater.
E. In effect the receiver "wakes up" the TD-5 to determine if the receiver audio has the correct/incorrect/no tone. If the receiver audio has the correct tone within parameters, the TD-5 then "wakes up" the "controller" to "wake up" the repeater to start repeating the audio with CW ID's at the timed intervals.
F. The TD-5 and the "controller" automatically go to "sleep," except the "controller's" hang time with or without the CW ID, when the receiver becomes squelched.
G. In essentially real-time, the system then awaits the next unsquelched receiver situation to restart the "if-then" determination and resulting actions/inactions.
H. So disconnect the "controller" from the receiver, not the repeater. The unconnected receiver output is then properly connected to the properly programmed TD-5 when then is connected to the "controller" input.
I. You do not need anything else or different to convert your system from carrier squelch to tone squelch. Since you desire to have repeat enable/disable, presumably at the site for diagnostic/programming purposes, refer to my previous posting.
   
How now?
 
Mike WBØDZX
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N2AYM

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Re: Hamtronics R302
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2021, 12:00:06 PM »

A. The "controller" (ID-O-MATTIC-II) would remain connected to the repeater as is, providing everything works in plain ol' carrier squelch.
B. The "controller" has the inherent ability to, if programmed to NOT be courteous, superimpose (simultaneously) the CW ID or other valid CW message underneath the unsquelched receiver audio.
C. If the "controller" is programmed to be courteous, it waits the time allotted after the receiver becomes squelched.
D. B and C hold true even when the receiver audio is intercepted by a properly connected (between the receiver and "controller" and programmed TD-5 tone decoder providing the audio to the "controller." When a TD-5 is used, no receiver audio is to be directly connected to the "controller" or repeater.
E. In effect the receiver "wakes up" the TD-5 to determine if the receiver audio has the correct/incorrect/no tone. If the receiver audio has the correct tone within parameters, the TD-5 then "wakes up" the "controller" to "wake up" the repeater to start repeating the audio with CW ID's at the timed intervals.
F. The TD-5 and the "controller" automatically go to "sleep," except the "controller's" hang time with or without the CW ID, when the receiver becomes squelched.
G. In essentially real-time, the system then awaits the next unsquelched receiver situation to restart the "if-then" determination and resulting actions/inactions.
H. So disconnect the "controller" from the receiver, not the repeater. The unconnected receiver output is then properly connected to the properly programmed TD-5 when then is connected to the "controller" input.
I. You do not need anything else or different to convert your system from carrier squelch to tone squelch. Since you desire to have repeat enable/disable, presumably at the site for diagnostic/programming purposes, refer to my previous posting.
   
How now?
 
Mike WBØDZX

yes mike - everything works in plain ol' carrier squelch mode which is the way it came
with the TD5 never used hence my 1st post. I need the R302 RX protected by tone squelch.
This is necessary in my area right in between NYC and Philly and being in a coastal area we
often get propagational enhancements especially around this time of the year.
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