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Author Topic: Advice on using Timewave ANC -4  (Read 423 times)

NN2X

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Advice on using Timewave ANC -4
« on: April 10, 2021, 10:11:54 AM »

I am about to embark on getting rid of S9 to 20, over. (Noise)!

I am using a DX Commander Classic, 7 Band, 40- 10...(Works great by the way) /Rig is FT 450 Yaesu,  /Amp SPE 1K

I assume, since the antenna I am using is vertical the best is to use a vertical antenna to feed the Timewave ANC - 4. I will use a wire length that is not a multiple of 10/12/15/17/20/30/40..

I will use 16Mhz, or a 1/4 wave length of 15FT (Aprx), (Which means 15FT vertical)

Any further advice using the Timewave ANC - 4..?

FYI: I have performed the following

1. Installed Baluns, chokes, ferrites beads...It did make a slight impact actually,

2. Turn the power from the house, and powered the transceiver with battery..Noise still there..

The noise I suspect is coming from the power lines, or my neighbors solar panels

My rig is FT 450 which has noise reduction, and host of other features to dampen the blow of the noise...All this is not able to knock down the S9 to 20 over S 9 noise that I have

I look forward to your responses..(And if any of you reading this post desires to sell a Timewave ANC - 4, please advise!)

NN2X / Tom
« Last Edit: April 10, 2021, 10:16:32 AM by NN2X »
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KF4HR

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Re: Advice on using Timewave ANC -4
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2021, 10:51:52 AM »

Tom - I'm using two ANC-4's on my Flex-6700, which I have connected to the RxA and RxB in/out ports, and activate the units via the SmartSDR software.  I've found my ANC-4's drops the overall noise level on 160, 80, 40, and 60M by about ~10db and under certain conditions has proved a useful NR tool.  Just keep in mind there's a -6db receive insertion loss with the ANC-4.  I also had to experiment with length, height, of my noise antennas to find one that worked well. 

KF4HR
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KX2T

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Re: Advice on using Timewave ANC -4
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2021, 11:19:03 AM »

Hi Tom, I have not used the ANC4 but have use and modified the MFJ 1025 and have dropped a S9+20db noise down to S3 or 4 on the lower bands as well up above 20m. I have had very good success with using a vertical noise antenna, about 36ft tall with some simple type of radial just don't make it resonate in  a ham bands. These noise boxes make excellent tools when surrounded by lots of different external noise. GL
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KC2WI

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Re: Advice on using Timewave ANC -4
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2021, 04:46:05 PM »

I have an ANC-4. It works but is not a magic bullet.  Usually I can get a few S-units of reduction. Typically signal level drops as well but the S/N improves quite a bit.

You want a noise antenna that picks up as little of the desired signal as possible. In other words a crummy antenna. You are not trying to pick up distant signal, only local noise. Typically, the closer the source of local noise, the better. If there is just general noise on the band, the ANC-4 won’t help too much.

You will probably have to experiment with noise antenna height, length, and orientation. I ended up with a fairly long wire alongside my house about 5 feet from  the ground.

The best thing to do is first see if you can locate the local source and get rid of it. Power lines,  streetlights, and cable are typical sources. I had a neighbor who had a defective cable box, maybe the power supply, and eventually the cable company tracked it down and fixed it. Also have had bad streetlights.

A good way to locate the source is to use a VHF AM receiver because most of that type of noise is broadband. I used a HT on the aircraft band (AM) and I also used my mobile HF rig on 6M with just a short antenna.
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NN2X

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Re: Advice on using Timewave ANC -4
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2021, 04:27:32 AM »

Hi Tom, I have not used the ANC4 but have use and modified the MFJ 1025 and have dropped a S9+20db noise down to S3 or 4 on the lower bands as well up above 20m. I have had very good success with using a vertical noise antenna, about 36ft tall with some simple type of radial just don't make it resonate in  a ham bands. These noise boxes make excellent tools when surrounded by lots of different external noise. GL

I think you are on to something...It is not so much the canceling unit, it is the "Noise Antenna". I to will purchase a fairly large Telescopic mast (33FT), (DX Commander), Since I am using a Vertical "DX Commander 7 Band" Might as well duplicate the entire set up for the "Noise Antenna" I will cut the wire for 33 Meters, (Just outside of the other 7 bands)

FYI this Telescopic mast weighs, maybe 2Lbs! If that...Light as feather!

I will have "Noise Antenna" vertical as well, wish me luck...

NN2X / Tom
« Last Edit: April 11, 2021, 04:29:33 AM by NN2X »
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W6QW

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Re: Advice on using Timewave ANC -4
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2021, 07:54:02 AM »

One thing to keep in mind is that differential-phase noise cancellers, such as the ANC-4 and MFJ-1025/6, work best when there is one predominant RFI noise source.  The larger the signal strength of the noise source at the sense input to the noise canceller, the better.  At the same time, to achieve a decent noise notching ability, it is preferable to discriminate signal inputs to the noise canceller's sense port so that the offending RFI source is accentuated.  As such, I recommend that you consider a small magnetic loop antenna for the RFI sense antenna.  Because of the large front-to-side signal strength ratio, you can accentuate the noise source which will make the notching ability of the noise canceller more effective.  You can cheaply build a broad-band loop yourself or purchase one (MLA-30, for instance) on eBay, as well as other sources.  I have helped others using this mitigation technique with excellent results.

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VE3PP

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Re: Advice on using Timewave ANC -4
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2021, 05:04:20 AM »

I am about to embark on getting rid of S9 to 20, over. (Noise)!

I am using a DX Commander Classic, 7 Band, 40- 10...(Works great by the way) /Rig is FT 450 Yaesu,  /Amp SPE 1K

I assume, since the antenna I am using is vertical the best is to use a vertical antenna to feed the Timewave ANC - 4. I will use a wire length that is not a multiple of 10/12/15/17/20/30/40..

I will use 16Mhz, or a 1/4 wave length of 15FT (Aprx), (Which means 15FT vertical)

Any further advice using the Timewave ANC - 4..?

FYI: I have performed the following

1. Installed Baluns, chokes, ferrites beads...It did make a slight impact actually,

2. Turn the power from the house, and powered the transceiver with battery..Noise still there..

The noise I suspect is coming from the power lines, or my neighbors solar panels

My rig is FT 450 which has noise reduction, and host of other features to dampen the blow of the noise...All this is not able to knock down the S9 to 20 over S 9 noise that I have

I look forward to your responses..(And if any of you reading this post desires to sell a Timewave ANC - 4, please advise!)

NN2X / Tom
Hi Tom, I have not used the ANC4 but have use and modified the MFJ 1025 and have dropped a S9+20db noise down to S3 or 4 on the lower bands as well up above 20m. I have had very good success with using a vertical noise antenna, about 36ft tall with some simple type of radial just don't make it resonate in  a ham bands. These noise boxes make excellent tools when surrounded by lots of different external noise. GL

I think you are on to something...It is not so much the canceling unit, it is the "Noise Antenna". I to will purchase a fairly large Telescopic mast (33FT), (DX Commander), Since I am using a Vertical "DX Commander 7 Band" Might as well duplicate the entire set up for the "Noise Antenna" I will cut the wire for 33 Meters, (Just outside of the other 7 bands)

FYI this Telescopic mast weighs, maybe 2Lbs! If that...Light as feather!

I will have "Noise Antenna" vertical as well, wish me luck...

NN2X / Tom

Hi Tom

When I had an ANC-4 inline I used a short vertical I clamped to the chain link fence (insulated it ) and then I used the fence as the ground. The vertical portion was about 16 feet high.
Worked well for me at the time for getting rid of local noise on 75/40.
Good Luck, you will get it figured out!
73 Rick VE3PP
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KM1H

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Re: Advice on using Timewave ANC -4
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2021, 02:22:34 PM »

Which MFJ 1025 mods did you use?

Ive found that using my 1026 as a 25 and the ANC-4 in series does very well on various RX only antennas.
Sense antenna is a 40" diameter rotatable 2 turn loop using 1" CATV hardline into a varactor tuneable PP J-310 preamp It is ~200' from the house and tuned with 12V DC on the RG6 quad shield. High Q and tuning is very sharp which also helps the RX signal handling.

Ive used this since the late 70's at two homes on BCB and 160. A smaller one handles 80/40.

Carl
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