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Author Topic: FTDX10 Ergonomics  (Read 1952 times)

K2TPZ

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FTDX10 Ergonomics
« on: April 17, 2021, 09:00:56 AM »

I’m considering purchasing the FTDX10 but am concerned about the ergonomics of the rig. I usually spend time at a ham store using the equipment prior to purchasing it. But due to COVID that is not possible.

Several Field Days ago I was the primary CW operator using a FT991A. That rig drove me nuts having to go to the Menu to do basic stuff I never had to do with my IC7300 or TS590SG at home. The FTDX10 looks like an excellent rig and is exactly the right size for what I want to use it for. I just want to know how menu intensive it is. If it is anything like the 991A I would not purchase it.k

For example can I access the filter settings, electronic keyer DNR, etc without having to press many buttons to do so as I had to with the FT 991A? As I said I am mostly a CW operator and I find it an annoying distraction to have to push several buttons to make minor changes in the middle of a QSO -especially in a contest environment (although Field Day is the only contest I play in).

Any input would be greatly appreciated. Comparisons to using the IC7300 (as that is now my primary rig) would be helpful. I loved using the TS590SG when I had it as every button and knob I needed was right in front of me when I had to change something to make a QSO easier to listen to. I’d hate to purchase the FTDX10 and find I had purchased an ergonomic disaster.

Thanks for your thoughts in advance. Mike, K2TPZ.
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NO9E

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Re: FTDX10 Ergonomics
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2021, 10:00:36 AM »

After some time one gets used to ergonomics. One cannot get used to poor performance, and there FTDX10 is excellent. See a review by a  ham authority:
https://swling.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Yaesu-FTdx10-D.pdf
He actually likes the ergonomics.

I like FT991A. Even FT-891. Can do zillion of things with a little effort.

The biggest shortcoming of FTDX10 to me is the lack of a receive antenna input. 

Ignacy, NO9E




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K0XY

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Re: FTDX10 Ergonomics
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2021, 10:25:14 AM »

...I have had the ic7300 and ts590g and ft991a...their ergo's are as different as night and day, and so is the ftdx10...I would somehow suggest you spend some time with an ftdx10 and its manual to get the feel, just make it happen...night and day for all four...
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AC7CW

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Re: FTDX10 Ergonomics
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2021, 11:15:01 AM »

You test drove a Yaesu already and it was offputting, right? I think that's part of the brand. I have one, I might be able to get it set up to be something I like here and after that I might really like it but the return on investment in time seems pretty small. Rigs are like cars. I did a huge research project to select a car once. I selected one, took the family for a test drive and none of us liked it! The advise to try out  some rigs is sound.
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Novice 1958, 20WPM Extra now... (and get off my lawn)

KX3DX

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Re: FTDX10 Ergonomics
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2021, 02:07:27 PM »

Kenwood fanboy here....

I purchased a FTdx-3000 when it first came out years ago.  I loved the DSP and the rest of the receiver but hated the ergonomics.  I stuck with the radio for a few years then went back to a Kenwood.  Also had an IC-7300 and an Elecraft in the interim. Both are gone too for various reasons.  I checked out a 991 at HRO just before Covid and while I thought the user interface was better than the 3000, it was still clunky.  Then the FTdx-10 comes out - I read everything I could find, watched the videos and decided to try one.  Well...the radio is completely different than the 3000 and 991.  While complex, it has a beautiful menu screen that is the gateway to the second menu tier.  It works - and after you get used to it, it works quite well.  A real ham must have been involved with the design of the radio and the menu's.  Is it a Kenwwod? - No.  Its different for sure, but quite good if you keep an open mind.  Not like that blasted FTdx-3000.

Are there warts?  Yep.  Plenty written about them so far.  I find the band scope without averaging just fine.  3DSS has its place on the upper bands where there is less going on.  I like 3DSS - once I learned when and where to use it.  Firmware upgrade issues - yep them too.

Oh - and then you start listening to the receiver...and then your transmit audio...and using the keyer.  The radio has the best DNR!  Weak signals pop up out of the noise.  It's hard to describe.  I may have to turn in my Kenwood fanboy card - at least until the TS-890 comes down in price - I don't know, I think we may see a shortage of new radios and elevated prices for a few months, if not longer.

Dave
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KX2T

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Re: FTDX10 Ergonomics
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2021, 03:24:28 PM »

Like many here I have owned I think every rig stated above plus a K3 which had THE WORST Menu and Ergonomics of any radio ever made, even my old 1000MP's were better than the K3. The 590S and the 7300 are the easiest radio's to us and there is no warming up time, they are very intuitive to use and you almost never need the manual. Now to the 10, which replaced my trusty backup and I was kind of thinking about the 101D to replace my 7610 but no deal the 7610 stays as the main station radio. The differences between the lab numbers and what you really do hear is not enough to take a hit selling one radio and then buying another for just a few DB on someone's chart is not worth it besides the display on the 101D/MP is nowhere near as nice as the Icom's plus they cannot figure out spectrum display averaging.
The Ten is a nice RX section and if you come from a FTDX3000 the TX with the 3 band EQ is nice providing you understand it and use it right plus the included another control to help tame the clipper like ALC that Yaesu used on the 3K and 5K that if you run peaks at were the naual tells you too you end up overdriving the finals and they end up with a good amount of buckshot(IMD). The Ten's display is OK but its real time all the time, again if Yaesu is looking at these forums bring Averaging on the spectrum display and get with the rest of the pack. On CW the radio for its price range is outstanding but SSB I still favor the Icom 7300 over the Ten, I am not saying its bad but with the 7300 it easy as one two three you there. The RX between the 7300 and the Ten I would take the Ten its slightly better in handling strong nearby signals but with the 7300 if you read the manual and use the RF gain control both radio's have excellent selectivity! Is it worth the extra $700 cash that's up to you, its is a step up but I have compared the Ten to the 7610 and the Icom wins and to me its just a much finer all around radio in every area but if you have a tin ear there might be not that much there but to someone who makes RX audio and quality important the Icom wins hand down but Yaesu has improved some over the past few radio's.
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WB2LQF

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Re: FTDX10 Ergonomics
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2021, 03:59:51 PM »

I have owned the Elecraft K3, the Kenwood TS590SG, the Kenwood TS890S and the ICOM 7300 in that sequence.  I now own the Yaesu FTdx10.  I am a 100% CW operator on 40 through 10 meters.  I like the Yaesu much better than the IC7300 in terms of menu friendliness, receiver sensitivity, ability to peak weak signals and just the general sense of satisfaction I get when I sit down to operate.  I like my Yaesu much better than my K3 in terms of display and menu friendliness.  I like my Yaesu more than the TS-590SG simply because the -590 - great CW rig that it was - had a boring display.  Yes, probably a stupid reason to abandon such a fine receiver but I just wanted something more "fun" than a green/orange text screen.  I like my Yaesu more than my TS-890S because it cost less than HALF the money and provides me with equivalent sensitivity and features.  Since I only use CW, all the phone and digital features on any of these radios is meaningless to me.  All I want is to sit down in front of a radio that "hears" weak signals well, has features that allow me to peak and process those weak signals effectively, and is straightforward enough in its menu operation to allow me to actually use all the CW features  rapidly as needed during a QSO as conditions change.  The FTdx-10 does that for me.  This is my experience based on the type of operating I do and my 58 years experience.  Your own mileage may vary based on your personal needs.
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KX3DX

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Re: FTDX10 Ergonomics
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2021, 04:55:58 PM »

Stan - I had to smile when you mentioned the TS-590 is boring.  I bought mine second-hand as a fill-in rig just before I let the IC7300 go.  Being a Kenwood fanboy, it was like coming home.  It *is* boring but for what I paid for it, actually regardless of what I paid for it, it is an awesome radio.  I call it my "reference" radio - like a piece of lab equipment.  To me, it is a standard.  I'd have to drink a lot of Elecraft Kool-aid to pick a K3 over a TS-590.  And it's just not ergonomics...

A lot of guys want to compare the IC-7300 with the FTdx-10.  They are different animals.  I had my 7300 for about a year and I fully understand why it is so popular - it's a very good radio.  The dynamic range/overload light was never a problem for me.  There's a lot new hams out there whose first HF radio is a 7300.  They might not like *anything* else after owning a 7300.  Icom has done a super job with growing brand loyalty with the 7300 - that's for sure.  I became a Kenwood fanboy this same way...520>130>440>930>940>590.  I still have the TS-440SAT that my wife gave me in 1987, in perfect shape.  Holds up as well as anything on phone but can't compete with the 50hz wide filters in an SDR demodulated radio.  Oh well.

Dave
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K6AER

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Re: FTDX10 Ergonomics
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2021, 06:32:25 PM »

Before you get too wrapped up over a new radio look at the reviews of which manufacture provides the best service. Sooner or later you will be heading down that path.
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AE0MO

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Re: FTDX10 Ergonomics
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2021, 09:58:00 PM »

I HAVE A QUESTION?  If you watch the classified adds on any of the popular ham site.  There is alot of the FTDX 10 on the market as soon as a few days after the purchase. In the last 6 weeks Ive seen at least a dozen up for sale from any were from 5 days old to a couple months.  Ive never seen a new piece of equipment go up for sale so fast after purchase as the rate of these.
does anyone know the reason for this.
Kevin
AE0MO
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K2TPZ

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Re: FTDX10 Ergonomics
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2021, 03:41:39 AM »

Kevin, I noticed the same thing. I’m also aware of K6AER’s comment about Yaesu’s service reputation. In my 63 years in the hobby I’ve experienced, observed and heard many things. I’ve also had gear from every manufacturer with mostly good experiences. So while I take everything in that I read and hear at this point I’m not that concerned.

What I know is that I’m looking at a piece of equipment that meets my size requirements and can enhance my enjoyment of the hobby. The FTDX10 has gotten my attention. I just want to make sure its ergonomics are not going to frustrate me. That was my basic question here. I’ll take my chances on everything else as I have done in the past.

Thanks to everyone for your comments. I really appreciate your input and of course I will consider what everyone has said. Best 73 and enjoy the hobby. Mike
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KX2T

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Re: FTDX10 Ergonomics
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2021, 05:49:01 AM »

Well I experienced Yaesu's service first hand many years ago in 1998, they exchanged an MP right before a CQWW contest and it was at my door that Friday. The Next time was about February this year, the TEN AF went mustang (CRACKY SOUND) then no AF, I sent the radio out and it should be back this week, the radio had to sit at there repair shop on a shelf for two weeks cause of covid then the fixed it and you have two weeks time in shipping. I also have had three display in my Icom 7610, yes three and each time it was from there service center in Michigan which was fast and outstanding as far as turn around time but the only bone I have to pick with Icom Corporate is I have over $300 in shipping cost and since it a re accruing same issue there should be something from Icom besides what they have done to satisfy there customers, the display has been Icom's Achilles Heel with the 7610 but I still really enjoy the radio. I also know when Yaesu brought out the 101D and had issues right off the bat they exchanged the radio's in question but it was not like every other radio had issues, Icom's display problem was allot bigger.
After being in this hobby since the late sixties I  have owned and use tons of radio's, I have work in this industry for years at a time and the ham radio marketplace is a very hard industry to stay alive in, its is NOT a high profit industry but the extras besides the radio's is were any money is to be made not on the rigs themselves. So with that understanding I do realize that there is no perfect radio and no perfect customer service but at times some companies go beyond that care and in my book for back in 98 Yaesu did just that but the Jury is still out with Icom and yes I have heard the same song and dance from Mr. Novak but he is just involved at a lower level its Icom Cooperate in Japan that should be looking at these forums cause they right now are the sales leader from the big three from Japan, nobody out sells Icom right now but in customer service they need to be spanked on how they handled there 7610.
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KX2T

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Re: FTDX10 Ergonomics
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2021, 05:56:46 AM »

To LQF, the 10's menu system blow away the K3, much easier and its in plain text because it is in no were near the cryptic form they use in there MP rigs back in the nineties but I would rate the Icom as the easiest menu system ever and the Ten on CW is a bear, except for ultimate audio quality I like the Ten as much as the 7610, they both work very well on this mode and since I only use CW&SSB I could care less about the digital modes but do like the RTTY in the Icom better its just very easy to use over the Yaesu but as far as FT8 that's DX via artificial insemination, I work my DX the old fashioned way!
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G8FXC

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Re: FTDX10 Ergonomics
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2021, 12:50:45 AM »

The ergonomics of modern Yaesus are pretty terrible compared with ICOM. Menu structures are often unintuitive and difficult to navigate and who on earth thought of clustering important buttons round a central tuning knob which you are almost guaranteed to jog as you search for the right button? That said, why does anyone use the front panel controls on a desk-top rig anymore? I have an IC-7300 and an FT-991A side by side on my shack desk - both connected to the shack PC which is equipped with two large monitors on arms over the rigs. The PC is also connected to an SDRPlay RSP1A SDR receiver which is the spectrum scope and panadaptor and I run both Win4ICOM and Win4Yaesu to control the rigs. None of the front panel controls of either radio are ever used - I turn on the PSUs by hand, then power the radios up via the PC. They are tuned via the PC - usually via the SDRUno spectrum scope. Volume, RF gain, modes and filtering are all controlled through the PC. I have macros programmed up on buttons in the Win4 suites to access commonly used functions if they are not directly exposed through the GUI.

So yes, the ergonomics of the Yaesu are horrible, but I simply don't notice them. If you like the functionality and performance of the FTDX10, then buy one... If you hate the front panel design, hook it up to your PC and drive it through there - the rig will continue to look brand new and you will maximise the resale value when you decide to upgrade....

Martin (G8FXC)
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AC7CW

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Re: FTDX10 Ergonomics
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2021, 01:04:53 PM »

I didn't learn to appreciate my FT-991A until I learned to put controls at the bottom of the screen using the SWAP function. It changes those controls automatically when the mode is changed so basically Yaesu sold me a rig that could be customized to have the controls available that I want but it was up to me to customize it.
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Novice 1958, 20WPM Extra now... (and get off my lawn)
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