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Author Topic: Contest etiquette for non-competitors  (Read 579 times)

WW4N

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Contest etiquette for non-competitors
« on: April 17, 2021, 05:07:54 PM »

I don't generally compete in contests.  But I do participate. Mainly, my interest is to work some DX for a bandfill I need for DX awards or even just to kill time on a weekend.

I always look up what contests are going on via the contest calendars available online. I look at the exchange information to see what I should send.  It's often signal report and continent or signal report and state, but sometimes it requires more.  Sometimes the contest exchange requires my age or the year I was licensed.  Those are easy enough.  But, often the contest requires a serial number.  Even for (what I think are) more casual contests like this weekend's Michigan QSO party.

The truth is... I'm not going to keep track of my serial number.  I'm logging these contacts, but I'm using my general purpose logger, not a contest logger.  And if tracking the serial number accurately is required, I'll probably not operate under the casual conditions I currently do... I'll wait until I'm serious enough to properly track a serial number.

When a contest requires a serial number, I might work one or two stations if I can work them in a single setting on a weekend.  And I'll give them serial numbers 001 and 002, etc.... but I'm reluctant to come back the next day and casually work a station because I fear that I will give them a serial number that I've already given.  Heck, maybe I could just give them all 001 as a serial number and not be concerned.

But, I have read some rules where the logs are merged and matched, and mis-matched information is a reduction in points.  I don't always dig into every contest rule detail to see if that's true or not.  And I rarely ever send in a log.  Some contests email me asking for logs, saying that it helps other operators get their desired points.  That's about the only time I have sent in a log.

Here's my question...

Under this style of casually participating just to have fun and kill time on a weekend (not competing)... is it ever bad form to just give 001 as the serial number to EVERY contact?  Are there occasions where that will subtract from the operator's points on the other end if I DO NOT submit a log?  If there are 10 stations who submit logs in the contest that have my callsign, and my serial number is 001 for all of them, does that subtract from their scores (for some or any contests)?
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AA4PB

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Re: Contest etiquette for non-competitors
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2021, 05:22:52 PM »

I don't know how the S/N counts - may be different for different contests. I operate the same way and don't submit a contest log. I just simply write down the last number used on a piece of paper that I keep for the contest weekend. That way I can give every contact a different serial. Toss the paper when the contest is over.

If you try to give every contact the same number then you may cause confusion among stations who are listening to you while waiting their turn.
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Bob  AA4PB
Garrisonville, VA

K0IZ

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Re: Contest etiquette for non-competitors
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2021, 05:46:04 PM »

I do the same, a piece of paper with the numbers.  If I start up later or next day, I know what was the last number.  If I try to work a station that's a dupe, they usually say so.  If not then I give then a new serial number, so I'm probably in their log twice, with two different numbers.  Doesn't seem to create a problem.  When I'm done operating, paper goes in the trash.
Any logging I do on my PC, I don't bother with the serial numbers.
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N2RRA

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Re: Contest etiquette for non-competitors
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2021, 06:08:06 PM »

I don't generally compete in contests.  But I do participate. Mainly, my interest is to work some DX for a bandfill I need for DX awards or even just to kill time on a weekend.

I always look up what contests are going on via the contest calendars available online. I look at the exchange information to see what I should send.  It's often signal report and continent or signal report and state, but sometimes it requires more.  Sometimes the contest exchange requires my age or the year I was licensed.  Those are easy enough.  But, often the contest requires a serial number.  Even for (what I think are) more casual contests like this weekend's Michigan QSO party.

The truth is... I'm not going to keep track of my serial number.  I'm logging these contacts, but I'm using my general purpose logger, not a contest logger.  And if tracking the serial number accurately is required, I'll probably not operate under the casual conditions I currently do... I'll wait until I'm serious enough to properly track a serial number.

When a contest requires a serial number, I might work one or two stations if I can work them in a single setting on a weekend.  And I'll give them serial numbers 001 and 002, etc.... but I'm reluctant to come back the next day and casually work a station because I fear that I will give them a serial number that I've already given.  Heck, maybe I could just give them all 001 as a serial number and not be concerned.

But, I have read some rules where the logs are merged and matched, and mis-matched information is a reduction in points.  I don't always dig into every contest rule detail to see if that's true or not.  And I rarely ever send in a log.  Some contests email me asking for logs, saying that it helps other operators get their desired points.  That's about the only time I have sent in a log.

Here's my question...

Under this style of casually participating just to have fun and kill time on a weekend (not competing)... is it ever bad form to just give 001 as the serial number to EVERY contact?  Are there occasions where that will subtract from the operator's points on the other end if I DO NOT submit a log?  If there are 10 stations who submit logs in the contest that have my callsign, and my serial number is 001 for all of them, does that subtract from their scores (for some or any contests)?

Yes, it is very bad to give every station the same serial number. These contests don’t fall under the same liberal logic everyone’s a winner so everyone should not have the same serial number. You just previously did mention that if the operators submitting their contest logs have contacts that may be wrong there’s a reduction in points. Well, that should answer your own question. Lots of operators are going to end up with a reduction in points.

There’s a program I use which is the N3FJP program. Great program and great service. It doesn’t hurt to pull up a logging program and then you can keep track of serial, CQ ZONE, or what ever number, state, province, or country. You’ll enjoy the contest more and I think if you try more of a variety of contests I’m sure you’ll find one that really gets your blood going.

Hope you do and enjoy.
73

« Last Edit: April 17, 2021, 06:13:33 PM by N2RRA »
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WW4N

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Re: Contest etiquette for non-competitors
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2021, 06:45:03 PM »

Yeah. This is what I'm getting at.  I don't know how many contests are like this... how many subtract points for the operator on the other end that got a bad serial number for me.  My guess is that it is not all of the ones that require an exchange with serial number... maybe only a small fraction of those.

So, the point of the question is that... if I DONT change my logging practice (which I will not do actively until I care more about contests), should I refrain from "hurting" the competitors of the contest... and just not work them.

At some point, I will care about contests, I'm certain of it.  At that point, I will use a better logging solution, and maybe one with a keyboard/CW interface and maybe foot-pedals for phone keying, etc... and whatever else is involved in competing...  At this point, I just don't compete.

This is a question about how much "damage" I might be doing under my current operating practices.  Should I just quit working contest stations? Should I quit working specific contests?

Others have replied that they use just a simple paper log of serial number to track it over a weekend.  That's probably what I'll do.  That's good advice.  It's not as much effort as using another logger and dealing with the LoTW integrations setup and merging into one local database for querying for bandfills and awards that I do locally.  That hassle is not worth it for what I chase during contests (for the most part... sometimes I chase a juicy one during a contest).

I am specifically asking... If I DO NOT submit a log... for what percentage of contests (or which contests specifically) am I causing damage to the worked competitors?  I might just note those contests and not work them.

I may more likely just keep a paper log of which contests I'm working over a weekend... and what serial number I'm at for each contest. That seems reasonable.

For the most part, I'm NOT GOING to submit a log.  I just would prefer to not casually work some station because I'm bored and hurt their progress in the contest.
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WW4N

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Re: Contest etiquette for non-competitors
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2021, 07:13:11 PM »

Hell, maybe I don't care, and I'll just work whoever I wanna work.  And if contests penalize their competitors for jackasses like me, so be it.  I just don't want to be anti-social if there's a known and established norm for how I should operate in these conditions.
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KC0W

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Re: Contest etiquette for non-competitors
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2021, 07:25:38 PM »

 Just purchase one of those thumb clickers available at most office supply or sporting goods stores. A cheap plastic one made in China can't be more than $8.00 - $10.00


                                             Tom KH0/KC0W
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W3WN

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Re: Contest etiquette for non-competitors
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2021, 08:30:32 PM »

I wouldn’t worry about it.

If a contest committee sees that everyone submitting a log who worked you shows the same Serial Number, they will quickly figure out what you did.  They can’t blame the entrants for you sending the same SN.

One year when operating the Pa QSO Party, there was an overlapping UK contest that weekend.  Anyone I worked in that contest got my PaQP SN. Most didn’t ask about it; those who did, well, I explained.  They copied what was sent... no issues.  Never heard any gripping about it afterwards, either.

Don’t sweat the small stuff. This is small stuff.
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N2RRA

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Re: Contest etiquette for non-competitors
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2021, 11:13:56 PM »

Yeah. This is what I'm getting at.  I don't know how many contests are like this... how many subtract points for the operator on the other end that got a bad serial number for me.  My guess is that it is not all of the ones that require an exchange with serial number... maybe only a small fraction of those.

So, the point of the question is that... if I DONT change my logging practice (which I will not do actively until I care more about contests), should I refrain from "hurting" the competitors of the contest... and just not work them.

At some point, I will care about contests, I'm certain of it.  At that point, I will use a better logging solution, and maybe one with a keyboard/CW interface and maybe foot-pedals for phone keying, etc... and whatever else is involved in competing...  At this point, I just don't compete.

This is a question about how much "damage" I might be doing under my current operating practices.  Should I just quit working contest stations? Should I quit working specific contests?

Others have replied that they use just a simple paper log of serial number to track it over a weekend.  That's probably what I'll do.  That's good advice.  It's not as much effort as using another logger and dealing with the LoTW integrations setup and merging into one local database for querying for bandfills and awards that I do locally.  That hassle is not worth it for what I chase during contests (for the most part... sometimes I chase a juicy one during a contest).

I am specifically asking... If I DO NOT submit a log... for what percentage of contests (or which contests specifically) am I causing damage to the worked competitors?  I might just note those contests and not work them.

I may more likely just keep a paper log of which contests I'm working over a weekend... and what serial number I'm at for each contest. That seems reasonable.

For the most part, I'm NOT GOING to submit a log.  I just would prefer to not casually work some station because I'm bored and hurt their progress in the contest.

I’ll make it very simple for you.

What ever you do weather you submit a log, or not just make sure you get the serial number right. If you can’t do that then don’t do it at all. If you pick and choose random stations based on not having a state, County, or country then it shouldn’t be hard to list, number and keep track. If you can’t do that don’t do it at all.

You can do what ever you want, but you’re doing a disservice to the contesters by confusing the folks checking the contesters scores and to the contesters.

That’s as simple as one can get.
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G4AON

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Re: Contest etiquette for non-competitors
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2021, 12:29:36 AM »

I just don't want to be anti-social if there's a known and established norm for how I should operate in these conditions.
There is, there always has been... listen before you transmit, even in obscure contests it is usually fairly straightforward to figure out what needs to be sent. The contest participants will ask you for anything they need.

You do not need a perfect serial numbering system, a notepad and pencil will suffice. For example,  suppose you work a couple of stations on Saturday and give serial 001 and 002, then work some more on Sunday in what appears to be a different contest, give them 003, 004, etc. The helpful thing for both participants and adjudicators is to not give duplicate serial numbers in the same contest.

73 Dave
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N2SR

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Re: Contest etiquette for non-competitors
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2021, 04:15:13 AM »


Here's my question...

Under this style of casually participating just to have fun and kill time on a weekend (not competing)... is it ever bad form to just give 001 as the serial number to EVERY contact?  Are there occasions where that will subtract from the operator's points on the other end if I DO NOT submit a log?  If there are 10 stations who submit logs in the contest that have my callsign, and my serial number is 001 for all of them, does that subtract from their scores (for some or any contests)?

Yes it is. 

Although what W3WN posted it correct, why make it more difficult?   

You don't have to remember what serial number you have to any previous QSOs.  You just should not give the same serial number to different stations.   

So, yes, you can skip serial numbers. 
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KG4RUL

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Re: Contest etiquette for non-competitors
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2021, 05:45:38 AM »

"Contest Etiquette" goes both ways.  I had been operating as a Special Event station and had a "contest" participant call me, get a contact for the Special Event, then proceed to start calling  CQ on the frequency I was working.  I called him back and asked why he was operating on a frequency that was in use.  His reply was that it was the weekend for that contest and I should have know that.  He kept on calling CQ. 

I have heard "contest" participants interfering with published nets and being incensed when they were called out on it. 

Amateur Radio should be fun!  Contests are not the be-all and end-all!
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W4FID

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Re: Contest etiquette for non-competitors
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2021, 05:51:53 AM »

You stated it in part of your first sentence "to work some DX for fills or to kill some time" That's fine. Lots probably do that. I have. But if it's meeting your needs why not you meet the other guy's needs too? Scrap paper or the manual clicker counter both work fine and the guy you work in the contest gets something for working you just as you filled your desires to work him (or her).
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OK4FX

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Re: Contest etiquette for non-competitors
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2021, 06:22:36 AM »

It has not yet been mentioned that the contest organizers are cutting a unique QSOs, i.e. ones where the callsign appears in an insufficient number of submitted logs.

if you are not sending a contest log, then make at least 3, 5, 10 QSO (depends on the contest rules) with different stations .

For example, the rules of the ongoing CQMM DX CONTEST are:

VALID CONTACTS :
– In the absence of the log of one part, shall be considered participating stations from competition those whose callsign appear in at least 5 logs received.
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Mira OK4FX

AC2EU

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Re: Contest etiquette for non-competitors
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2021, 07:01:41 AM »

I'm glad that WW4N posted this thread. I,too, am guilty of this practice but I didn't think it was deleterious to the serious contester, just a waste of 5 seconds of his time.
It's great practice for CW OPs to listen for call signs and responses at 33 WPM, without having to do an entire QSO at that rate. ( I'm lucky if I can maintain a QSO at 18 WPM).

The contest DX opportunities with contests is better also, with contests such as CQ MM last night.

Either look up the contest or listen to the exchanges to get the appropriate response. I like the number clicker idea for serial numbers. Beats a paper log!

Thank you all. Now I feel less guilty...
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