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Author Topic: pay pal friends question  (Read 506 times)

KC6RWI

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pay pal friends question
« on: May 24, 2021, 08:07:06 AM »

I have been on a waiting list to buy a Russian portable sdr.. starts with an M. Finally I get the message the radios are available and a new model is made, I haven't seen it and asked for a picture.
The price was slightly higher $270 and the seller wants the money sent as family friend deal. Now I am feeling dubious, for lack of a better term.
I also don't have a PayPal account and I really don't want to create one with my bank account or debit card numbers. 
I guess I have answered my question except with friends and family payments am I losing protection and paying extra to do the payment?
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N6MST

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Re: pay pal friends question
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2021, 08:14:52 AM »

am I losing protection and paying extra to do the payment?

Yes. Absolutely. 110%. Using the F&F option affords the sender (you) ZERO protection whatsoever. If you get burned and complain to PayPal they will literally tell you they can do nothing about it because you used the F&F option.

You don't pay any extra but the seller avoids paying the fee that PayPal charges to sellers. They are avoiding paying the fee by putting your money at risk. NOT WORTH IT.
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W9IQ

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Re: pay pal friends question
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2021, 08:27:36 AM »

Ask the seller what their seller fees are. Say it's 3% plus a fixed amount. In this example, offer to pay (the price + the fixed fee)/1.03. This will net the seller the same amount of cash and it keeps your buyer protection in force.

- Glenn W9IQ
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- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.

N1IG

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Re: pay pal friends question
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2021, 08:37:57 AM »

Recently bought an item from the classified section, and used PayPal's friends and family so that I would cover the 3% or so fee ($11.03).  The next day I looked at my credit card account online, and not only did I have the $381.03 charge from PayPal, but my credit card company added a "Cash Equivalent Transaction fee" of $19.05!

I called my credit card company (BoA) and was told that a fee is charged when you purchase foreign currency, money orders or travelers checks from a nonfinancial institution, or person-to-person money transfers.  They also said that PayPal codes F&F charges as person-to-person money transfers, so the added charges are applied.

This may have been mentioned in one of the many terms of use that I have been sent over the years, but I have never seen this charge before.

Trying to save the other person a few dollars, may end up costing you more than you expected.  I will never use the F&F feature again.
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W9IQ

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Re: pay pal friends question
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2021, 08:53:40 AM »

Sorry - past my edit time.

In my prior example, you would divide by 0.97, not 1.03 as shown.

- Glenn W9IQ
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- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.

KC6RWI

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Re: pay pal friends question
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2021, 09:03:00 AM »

Yes, Glenn, but I would still be using pay pal, I imagine or some other one way payment. There is alot development on these radios, and downloads, there could be problems with functions, who knows. I am rethinking the whole thing now.
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W9IQ

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Re: pay pal friends question
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2021, 09:07:41 AM »

Perfectly understandable. It is not always advantageous to own version 1.0. I wish you well with your decisions.

- Glenn W9IQ
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- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.

N6MST

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Re: pay pal friends question
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2021, 09:09:44 AM »

Ask the seller what their seller fees are. Say it's 3% plus a fixed amount. In this example, offer to pay (the price + the fixed fee)/1.03. This will net the seller the same amount of cash and it keeps your buyer protection in force.

- Glenn W9IQ

While nothing in the PayPal terms of service prohibit a purchaser from offering to pay the ~3% PayPal fee it is worth noting that a seller requiring buyers to pay the fee is a direct violation of the TOS that EVERY PayPal user agrees to.
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W9IQ

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Re: pay pal friends question
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2021, 09:41:42 AM »

Ask the seller what their seller fees are. Say it's 3% plus a fixed amount. In this example, offer to pay (the price + the fixed fee)/0.971.03. This will net the seller the same amount of cash and it keeps your buyer protection in force.

- Glenn W9IQ

While nothing in the PayPal terms of service prohibit a purchaser from offering to pay the ~3% PayPal fee it is worth noting that a seller requiring buyers to pay the fee is a direct violation of the TOS that EVERY PayPal user agrees to.

Good to note. I also corrected my formula in the quote above.

- Glenn W9IQ
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- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.

K4FMH

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Re: pay pal friends question
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2021, 10:37:41 AM »

I have been on a waiting list to buy a Russian portable sdr.. starts with an M. Finally I get the message the radios are available and a new model is made, I haven't seen it and asked for a picture.
The price was slightly higher $270 and the seller wants the money sent as family friend deal. Now I am feeling dubious, for lack of a better term.
I also don't have a PayPal account and I really don't want to create one with my bank account or debit card numbers. 
I guess I have answered my question except with friends and family payments am I losing protection and paying extra to do the payment?

I understand your reticence with storing CC numbers. Note a few things in addition to the other great comments. I’ve always been serviced well by PayPal, now over 10 years. Their protection is for sales & services so that’s what you want to use. Every computer system with your CC/Debit card info is at risk. What protection does your card issuer (e.g., bank) have for fraudulent use? By most state laws, debit cards have significantly less consumer protection than CCs. Finally, I trust my CC number at PayPal far more than it being stored on numerous “accounts” at online vendors. Many say they don’t store them but actually do. Many CC TOS with the VENDOR gives them access to some of your consumer data here in the US so they store your number long enough to acquire this info. My advice is to use PayPal for sales & services, avoid sellers who wish to add fees to the sales price, and consider using PP with your CC (not debit) temporarily without a permanent PP account.

Good luck…
« Last Edit: May 24, 2021, 10:50:22 AM by K4FMH »
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K7AAT

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Re: pay pal friends question
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2021, 11:11:13 AM »


In my opinion it's really stupid of sellers to tell prospective buyers they must pay the PalPal fees.    It adds another layer of complexity and resentment.   Just put the cost of a fee in your original set price and be done with it.  No fuss,  no mess.
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KC6RWI

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Re: pay pal friends question
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2021, 12:10:15 PM »

Thanks for those 2 last posts, its just me being rebellious to the internet that wants to know all.
To the last post, complexity and resentment, thats how I am feeling..
I keeping the money in my pocket.
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K7LZR

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Re: pay pal friends question
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2021, 03:49:39 PM »


In my opinion it's really stupid of sellers to tell prospective buyers they must pay the PalPal fees.    It adds another layer of complexity and resentment.   Just put the cost of a fee in your original set price and be done with it.  No fuss,  no mess.

Exactly. And as has been mentioned already, it is a violation of PayPal's TOS.
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AC2EU

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Re: pay pal friends question
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2021, 07:25:09 AM »

Thanks for those 2 last posts, its just me being rebellious to the internet that wants to know all.
To the last post, complexity and resentment, thats how I am feeling..
I keeping the money in my pocket.

If the seller is legit, he should have the ability to "invoice you" via PayPal. You will NOT need a PayPal account that way.
The seller sends the invoice and link via email. The buyer opens the link to a CC payment portal, similar to buying something online.
The buyer will have the protections of both Paypal and the card.

KC6RWI

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Re: pay pal friends question
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2021, 09:21:33 AM »

Thanks for mentioning that, I was just given an email address to pay for the purchase on paypal and no other confirming link.
I guess after I pay I hope the seller see's my payment and confirms.
Thats not good enough for me.
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