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Author Topic: Cheating on online exam  (Read 954 times)

K3UIM

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Re: Cheating on online exam
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2021, 06:16:07 AM »

UAA: It's a great temptation to resign to the call of the sound of others playing outside when trying to copy code inside, but it seems that if the love of labor is strong enough, the struggle continues, hopefully with success in sight. (Failed relationships come to mind.)

How many times the project had to wait until a junk yard, (where we could spend pennies instead of dollars,) obtained the piece needed to get back to work.

And Oh! The sweet taste of victory once the project was completed!! Much like when passing the 60th anniversary! (whew! LOL)

But, sad to say, that doesn't seem to be the case today with our "entitlement generation" being our future leaders. sigh

"Screaming in my pillow for a lost art" Charlie   :'(; D
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Charlie. K3UIM
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N2EY

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Re: Cheating on online exam
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2021, 07:27:33 AM »

N2EY: Some of us didn't have enough gray matter I guess and it was a struggle. Especially the 13 wpm cw. :'( .... sigh ...

Maybe. The thing is, looking at the old License Manuals, the claims of how "hard" the old tests were seem extremely exaggerated.

I believe we earned the ticket while a "college ready" person would breeze through it.

So some people "earned" the ticket and others didn't?

I earned the Advanced at age 14, with an 8th grade education. No way I was "college ready".

Those that struggled appreciate it and its benefits VERY much.

I've been a ham 54 years and I've always appreciated it.

73 de Jim, N2EY
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K3UIM

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Re: Cheating on online exam
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2021, 08:07:18 AM »


EY:
1 - "Maybe. The thing is, looking at the old License Manuals, the claims of how "hard" the old tests were seem extremely exaggerated."
I too, can say the same thing ... today.

2 - "So some people "earned" the ticket and others didn't?"
Everyone earned it, but some, less adept to learning, more than others . This ADD lad struggled to continue and the urge to just give it up almost dominated my existence. LOL

2b- "I earned the Advanced at age 14, with an 8th grade education. No way I was "college ready".
You weren't ADD. (I assume, of course. ;D) As a child my greatest desire was to be "normal" when I grew up. Not such a flighty, rambunctious imp. ... (I'm still nursing the desire! LOL)

3 - "I've been a ham 54 years and I've always appreciated it."
And we touch on common ground, my friend!

Charlie
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Charlie. K3UIM
Where you are: I was!
Where I am: You will be!
So be nice to us old fogies!!

KM1H

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Re: Cheating on online exam
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2021, 01:49:17 PM »

Quote
So some people "earned" the ticket and others didn't?

I earned the Advanced at age 14, with an 8th grade education. No way I was "college ready".

There was no Advanced when I was 14 and the Extra offered no extra privileges so I waited until 1968 when it was worth something thanks to The FCC Incentive Licensing program. Still not college educated but the USN ET ratings I passed plus lots of great hams at National Radio made it an aced exam. I was already beyond 20 wpm in regular use.

Carl
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N2EY

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Re: Cheating on online exam
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2021, 04:26:20 AM »

In the interest of historical accuracy:

The Advanced class of license began in 1951 as the new name for the old Class A license. This was part of the restructuring of 1951.

The FCC closed the Advanced class license to new issues at the end of 1952. Existing Advanced licensees could continue to renew and modify their licenses; there just weren't any new ones issued.

The Advanced was reopened to new issues in 1967 as part of the restructuring known as "incentive licensing".

The Advanced was closed to new issues in April 2000 as part of the restructuring of that year. Again, existing Advanceds can continue to renew and modify their licenses.

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K6CPO

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Re: Cheating on online exam
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2021, 01:52:11 PM »

So, all the old-timers took this "Cheating on online exam" topic as a reason to launch into another "I had to walk 100 miles uphill both ways in the middle of winter to get to the FCC office to take my exam" discussion?  Seriously?  You should, by this time, realize that constantly bitching about how "hard" you had it does nothing to impress those of us that were licensed more recently. We're really tired of it...
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K3UIM

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Re: Cheating on online exam
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2021, 02:49:04 PM »

CPO: I'm not complaining, but just admitting that we who took the test at a federal testing point feel that we "went all the way" and feel offended by those who choose to cheat to get the same ham privileges. ("The Grasshopper and the Ant" come to mind.

I can't blame a cheater for protesting about those of us that struggled to get the ticket(s). It's the way those things go, if only to save face, but I can crawl in bed each night knowing I did the job well enough to earn the call letters and I don't have to worry about someone, somewhere possible knowing the cheating truth.

I'm proud to be called a ham radio operator, but can they say that too? (I sincerely doubt it.)

Charlie
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Charlie. K3UIM
Where you are: I was!
Where I am: You will be!
So be nice to us old fogies!!

KM1H

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Re: Cheating on online exam
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2021, 02:49:48 PM »

So, all the old-timers took this "Cheating on online exam" topic as a reason to launch into another "I had to walk 100 miles uphill both ways in the middle of winter to get to the FCC office to take my exam" discussion?  Seriously?  You should, by this time, realize that constantly bitching about how "hard" you had it does nothing to impress those of us that were licensed more recently. We're really tired of it...

What did I say that got you seriously staining your panties?
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N2EY

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Re: Cheating on online exam
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2021, 03:59:20 PM »

So, all the old-timers took this "Cheating on online exam" topic as a reason to launch into another "I had to walk 100 miles uphill both ways in the middle of winter to get to the FCC office to take my exam" discussion?  Seriously?  You should, by this time, realize that constantly bitching about how "hard" you had it does nothing to impress those of us that were licensed more recently. We're really tired of it...

There's a HUGE difference between "this is how it was back-when" and "oh we had it SO hard".

Sometimes that difference is lost in translation.

---

I became a ham in 1967 at the age of 13. Ham radio was a lot different then, and I could tell you stories of how much harder the license tests were, how crude and expensive the equipment was, yada yada yada.....

But lots of others do that. So instead I'll tell you the dirty little secret of us OTs: In at least some ways, we had it a lot easier than today. At least, it was that way in the mid-1960s, when I got started, and it extends back to at least the 1950s.

Here's why:

- In 1967, most new US hams got started as Novices, because the license was the easiest to get.

But the 1967 Novice license was only good for two years and you only got one of them. So most Novices didn't get a license until they were ready to use it. The usual path was to get an HF receiver first, and string up some sort of wire antenna so as to hear other hams and learn the code. Theory and regs came from books and magazines. End result was that, by the time a newcomer took the license tests, they already had two-thirds of a station, and had at least some experience with the ham bands.

The 1967 Novice only allowed CW operation on parts of 80, 40 and 15 meters. There were some 2 meter privileges too, but in those pre-repeater days most newcomers stuck to HF. Power limit was 75 watts input and the transmitter had to be crystal controlled. And the Novice band segments weren't harmonically related, so you needed a crystal for each frequency.

New equipment was expensive. Even a basic setup like the Heath HR-10B/DX-60B would set you back $160, and they were kits that had to be assembled. ($160 then inflates to about $1000 today). The Drake 2C/2NT combo cost about double that.

So the typical Novice usually started out with used gear, or scrimped and saved to buy basic new gear. Also, many of us converted WW2 surplus (which was pretty cheap and readily available, both by mail and in stores in larger cities, as well as from other hams) or built our own stuff. No old TV set or AM BC set was safe in a ham's neighborhood, either; they were cannibalized for parts - and they had a LOT of usable parts.

The equipment was really basic, and performed poorly by today's standards. But what this did was to make us learn operating skills and to really understand the meaning of words like "sensitivity", "selectivity", "tuning rate", etc. It also meant we could build, fix and modify our own stuff pretty easily. And it worked well enough to make a few contacts, which was all that mattered.

Because the Novice privileges were so limited, most of us settled on one or two bands (typically 80/40) and so things like antenna choice were simple. A basic dipole or random end-fed wire would do the trick. Most typical Novice transmitters had output circuits that could match such antennas, so we didn't worry too much about SWR or "antenna tuners". Nobody had ever heard of a G5RV.

Nobody had ever heard of an HOA or CC&R, either. Not involving antennas, anyway. Everyone was used to seeing TV and radio antennas on homes - in fact, a big TV antenna was actually a status symbol, because it meant you had color TV! The only antenna issues were space, money and high supports.

You could get a lot of stuff locally, too. Around here. there were Lafayette, Radio Shack, and RESCO stores that carried all sorts of goodies. Your local hardware store (every town had one) had antenna wire, insulators, rope, etc.

Radio stuff cost so much that equipment choice was limited to what you could afford - which usually wasn't all that much. Made it easy to choose! Yet, the oldest gear typically seen by us was WW2 surplus, which was only 25 years old. Most ham gear then was even newer - a 1950s rx or tx was only 10-15 years old.

Using separate receivers and transmitters was complicated, but it also made improvements easy. Once the General or Advanced was earned, it was a pretty simple thing to get a VFO and move out of the Novice subbands. Improvements were made gradually - a better receiver one year, a higher-powered transmitter the next, an improved antenna over the summer. Getting a bug or a keyer was a really big deal - I still have and use my 1974 vintage Original Standard. Seven years on a straight key taught me to appreciate it.

There were books like "Understanding Amateur Radio" and "How To Become A Radio Amateur" that focused on what the new ham had to know. Such books could focus on a few subjects in depth, because the Novice license didn't allow much else anyway.

The ham mags and books of those days were full of articles that practically leapt off the page and screamed "BUILD ME!!!" at you. These were articles about receivers and transmitters, not just accessories and little doo-dads. Whether you built them or not, they gave you an idea of how radio worked, right down to the bolt-and-nut level.

There were lots of kits, too. Not just Heathkit but Knight (Allied), Eico, Johnson, and others. Hands-on experience!

The end result was that a lot of learning went on without us really knowing it. The few choices meant we learned the basics really well. The "Novice bands" were usually busy, both with newcomers and old-timers helping out.

----

Today, a new ham has a very wide choice of rigs, bands, modes, antennas, and accessories. How to choose? That new rig may do 160 through 6, but what antenna do you put up? And what if it stops working?

73 de Jim, N2EY
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K3UIM

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Re: Cheating on online exam
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2021, 04:56:23 PM »

Jim,

WOW! Well put! "UAR" was the bible (small b) for the local Novices and many of the home-brewing, WW2 modifications to the ARC-5's, etc came from the book. It helped many of us to learn what was needed to go take the test. (A very real blessing!)

Being a newly wed T&D apprentice meant I had to go on the cheap, but Radio Shack helped a lot.

Charlie
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Charlie. K3UIM
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Where I am: You will be!
So be nice to us old fogies!!

KM1H

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Re: Cheating on online exam
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2021, 06:28:03 PM »

In the interest of real historical accuracy:

When I got interested in radio at 12 in 1953, QST was sold in stores with magazines and wasnt hidden away. Magazines such as Popular Mechanics and Popular Science had ham radio or SWL projects often and were sold in the same stores. Local used book stores had loads of back issues on all sorts of subjects and that is where I also became a life long automotive gearhead, hot rodder, etc etc.
I built my first radio that way and most parts from a local dump almost two years before becoming licensed.
The Radio Amateurs Handbook was in the public library where I lived in NY.

Huge numbers of WW2 servicemen had readily available books to make radio and TV repairmen out of then.  Many had experience with Morse code and some electronics repairs.

Popular Electronics arrived in October 1954 and it became an instant hit especially with teenagers.

And one thing led to another real fast.

Quote
But the 1967 Novice license was only good for two years and you only got one of them. So most Novices didn't get a license until they were ready to use it. The usual path was to get an HF receiver first, and string up some sort of wire antenna so as to hear other hams and learn the code.


Thats good for a laugh as the prior Novice was one year and non renewable, in 67 it gave all another extra year to upgrade. PLUS by then many high schools had a Radio Club, the 3 I went to sure did years before that. So did many other towns as the 40 and 80M Novice bands were wall to wall signals every week day.
I had an excellent Mentor plus copied W1AW on that receiver I already had and passed the Novice first time.


Quote
New equipment was expensive. Even a basic setup like the Heath HR-10B/DX-60B would set you back $160, and they were kits that had to be assembled. ($160 then inflates to about $1000 today). The Drake 2C/2NT combo cost about double that.

That is always good for more laughs as many kids had a small part time job in the suburbs of most any city and the buying power was high even if the kids gave money to parents to buy things on that new fangled "Lay Away Plan" the equipment dealers quickly ramped up. Also available for older kids and parents was the $10 down and so much a week or month plans.

In no way was it anything as repressive as Jimmy makes it out to be especially when Heathkit, Allied, Henry Radio, Eico, Johnson, and others made the process painless for most. I just ignore those inflation calculators and the hypers today as out of touch with the real world in the 50-60's and the post WW2 buying power explosion.

I elected to do a lot of building, converting WW2 surplus right from the start even before the Novice and finally bought a used Hammarlund HQ-129X a few months before passing the General as 15M was red hot during the Cycle 19 ramp up and my friends were telling me how much DX they were working with simple gear and antennas.

I never considered the FCC exams hard BUT you actually had to study as there were no Bash books, exam cheat sheets on the market yet.

Quote
I became a ham in 1967 at the age of 13. Ham radio was a lot different then, and I could tell you stories of how much harder the license tests were, how crude and expensive the equipment was, yada yada yada....

One year later while you were still fussing about in short pants I had my Extra results in hand at the NYC FCC office, with no missed questions and 20WPM was a snap, all it took was study and practice. I never had the habit of freezing up at exams which helped.

Carl
Ham since 1955
« Last Edit: July 16, 2021, 06:32:29 PM by KM1H »
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K3UIM

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Re: Cheating on online exam
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2021, 07:01:16 PM »

Carl:
"I never had the habit of freezing up at exams which helped."

I have to confess that shortly after the code exam started I became frustrated and dropped my pencil ready to give up. That caused the guy beside me to stop printing, which made me realize that I was distracting the group.

I then picked up my pencil and copied solid. (Totally humiliated!!)

(I was going to take that to the grave, but ... )

Charlie
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Charlie. K3UIM
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Where I am: You will be!
So be nice to us old fogies!!

N2EY

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Re: Cheating on online exam
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2021, 07:32:08 PM »

It's.....interesting....when someone quotes the posted words of another but doesn't identify who they are quoting.

Cowardly and immature, really.

Of course such folks are ready to brag about what they supposedly did decades ago....but are very quiet about what they've done recently. They'll make fun of the recent accomplishments of others, but not talk about what they have done in the same time frame.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2021, 07:41:00 PM by N2EY »
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K7MEM

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Re: Cheating on online exam
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2021, 04:37:17 AM »

I have to confess that shortly after the code exam started I became frustrated and dropped my pencil ready to give up. That caused the guy beside me to stop printing, which made me realize that I was distracting the group.

At least you realized that this was distracting others, and stopped.

When I was testing for Extra, I had just finished passing the Advanced and Extra written tests and moved over to the area that was giving the Morse test. There were eight of us at the table, IIRC. One of the hams taking the test wanted to use a keyboard. This was his third time taking the 20 WPM test. So they brought out a computer or terminal with a keyboard. It was a bit annoying to everyone because, he was only getting ever couple of characters. So there were odd clicks and clacks. Finally, he gave a grunt and pushed the terminal to the side and grabbed a pencil. He fussed around through the rest of the test

None of this bothered me. I was nice and calm and didn't have any problems observing him, and copying at the same time. To me, he was just a bit of QRM. But I think it upset the rest of the hams being tested. While we were copying, I could see that the others at the table were having a hard time concentrating. In the end, I was the only one at the table that passed (100% copy). The other guys should have asked for a retest, without the other guy around.
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KM1H

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Re: Cheating on online exam
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2021, 10:23:12 AM »

Quote
It's.....interesting....when someone quotes the posted words of another but doesn't identify who they are quoting.


If you mean me I apologize to anyone mentally challenged that they cant recognize their own words a huge 1 hour and 28 minutes later. Perhaps you might wish to explain that ailment so we can all be more observant and treat you accordingly with our replies.

Quote
Cowardly and immature, really.

About as juvenile and inflammatory a statement as Ive seen on here in a long time.

Quote
Of course such folks are ready to brag about what they supposedly did decades ago....but are very quiet about what they've done recently. They'll make fun of the recent accomplishments of others, but not talk about what they have done in the same time frame.

Do you have any examples or are you just on one of your general rants again? Most of my activities the past several months have been yard work thanks to a very windy late winter and spring, helping my oldest son to move into a new house, replacing a 31 year old commercial Fedders 18000 BTU AC with a modern LG of the same rating but far more efficient and with far more features. Ill be happy to detail that for you but I fear others will be terminally bored.

I also need to take down a few large trees that are spreading close to tower guy wires; would you like to come up and help? Free food also.
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