Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Yaesu 2980r Questions - Simplex, Frequency Stepping +, -  (Read 338 times)

KG7NTM

  • Posts: 2
    • HomeURL
Yaesu 2980r Questions - Simplex, Frequency Stepping +, -
« on: July 14, 2021, 01:12:34 PM »

Please be kind to this newbie with my observation and question:

I am trying to operate in simplex. Here is what I noticed on the radio display; frequencies either display a +, - or nothing on the display. The frequencies selected by using the front dial that do not display the + or -, I can communicate in simplex, station to station. The other frequencies that display the + or - transmit on another frequency.

Why is this? Is it normal?

I assumed that a dialed frequency could be used in simplex. Is my assumption incorrect? Is there a setting on the radio that I can change? I reset the radio to factory settings and the results are the same.

Help?
Logged

WA6BJH

  • Member
  • Posts: 242
Re: Yaesu 2980r Questions - Simplex, Frequency Stepping +, -
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2021, 01:25:59 PM »

If you have the manual that should explain it quite well.  If you set the frequency to 146.52 you should notice that there is no + or -.  If you set it to a frequency between 146.400 (approximately) and 147.00, you should see a - .  That indicates that the transmit frequency will be 600 kHz below the receive frequency; this is for repeater use.  On other frequencies you might see a + if that part of the band is for repeaters with a high input.

The standard simplex frequency is 146.52 MHz.  Frequencies on either side of .52 are also simplex frequencies.  You should not see a + or a - on .52, especially if you’ve reset the radio.

Again, if you have the manual it should be obvious.

Logged

KG7NTM

  • Posts: 2
    • HomeURL
Re: Yaesu 2980r Questions - Simplex, Frequency Stepping +, -
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2021, 01:49:23 PM »

I appreciate your explanation. To be clear, this is what I hear you saying; there are frequency ranges designated to step up, and ranges that step down, and a range that does not do either. It sounds like a system design and not a problem or setting in the radio. We just can't pick a random freq and run simplex on it, as it may step up or down. We need to stay close to 146.52.

Is that true with 70cm too?

Thank You!
Logged

K6CPO

  • Member
  • Posts: 839
Re: Yaesu 2980r Questions - Simplex, Frequency Stepping +, -
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2021, 02:18:17 PM »

Please be kind to this newbie with my observation and question:

I am trying to operate in simplex. Here is what I noticed on the radio display; frequencies either display a +, - or nothing on the display. The frequencies selected by using the front dial that do not display the + or -, I can communicate in simplex, station to station. The other frequencies that display the + or - transmit on another frequency.

Why is this? Is it normal?

I assumed that a dialed frequency could be used in simplex. Is my assumption incorrect? Is there a setting on the radio that I can change? I reset the radio to factory settings and the results are the same.

Help?

There exist things called "band plans."  These are "gentleman's  agreements" that divide a particular frequency band up into segments for different purposes.  Commonly, these are repeater inputs, repeater outputs and simplex operation. There are others, such as digital or RTTY modes, but for purposes of your question, we'll deal with just the repeaters and simplex.

Because these band plans have been in effect for quite a while, the radio manufacturers—iCom, Kenwood and Yaesu—have built the repeater offsets into their radios' firmware.  This is why you are seeing + and - signs on your display when dialing to some frequencies.  Those are set aside for repeater use. While you can use those frequencies for simplex by turning off your radio's automatic repeater shift, it's best to NOT use simplex on those frequencies because of the possibility of interfering with an existing repeater.

The band plans for the various bands in the US can be found at the ARRL website: http://www.arrl.org/band-plan.

You can also purchase a nice printed guide that covers all the band plans from 160 meters up to 70cm: https://www.niftyaccessories.com/bands_op_guide.php
Logged

K0UA

  • Member
  • Posts: 9589
Re: Yaesu 2980r Questions - Simplex, Frequency Stepping +, -
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2021, 05:58:00 PM »

Please be kind to this newbie with my observation and question:

I am trying to operate in simplex. Here is what I noticed on the radio display; frequencies either display a +, - or nothing on the display. The frequencies selected by using the front dial that do not display the + or -, I can communicate in simplex, station to station. The other frequencies that display the + or - transmit on another frequency.

Why is this? Is it normal?

I assumed that a dialed frequency could be used in simplex. Is my assumption incorrect? Is there a setting on the radio that I can change? I reset the radio to factory settings and the results are the same.

Help?

There exist things called "band plans."  These are "gentleman's  agreements" that divide a particular frequency band up into segments for different purposes.  Commonly, these are repeater inputs, repeater outputs and simplex operation. There are others, such as digital or RTTY modes, but for purposes of your question, we'll deal with just the repeaters and simplex.

Because these band plans have been in effect for quite a while, the radio manufacturers—iCom, Kenwood and Yaesu—have built the repeater offsets into their radios' firmware.  This is why you are seeing + and - signs on your display when dialing to some frequencies.  Those are set aside for repeater use. While you can use those frequencies for simplex by turning off your radio's automatic repeater shift, it's best to NOT use simplex on those frequencies because of the possibility of interfering with an existing repeater.

The band plans for the various bands in the US can be found at the ARRL website: http://www.arrl.org/band-plan.

You can also purchase a nice printed guide that covers all the band plans from 160 meters up to 70cm: https://www.niftyaccessories.com/bands_op_guide.php

What a wonderful and concise description of the situation.

As a footnote, if you do operate simplex "willy nilly" without regard for the bandplan, you might choose a frequency that happens to be a local computer input and in doing so you could be causing interference by keying up the repeater or overriding other repeater users without you even knowing you are doing it. It is best to stick to the standard simplex frequencies for simplex like .52 or .55 or .58 or .49 etc. that are set aside in the band plan for this purpose. The rigs firmware is trying to keep you on track but of course as pointed out above it can be overridden if you insist.
Logged
73  James K0UA

K7MEM

  • Member
  • Posts: 1058
    • JavaScript Electronic Notebook
Re: Yaesu 2980r Questions - Simplex, Frequency Stepping +, -
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2021, 12:11:09 AM »

You might want to look at this chart on my web page on Michigan 2M Repeaters. If you scroll down a bit, there is a active chart that details the current "band plan" for 2 Meters. This may help explain things a bit.

The National FM Calling frequency at 146.52 MHz is highlighted. That is the preferred simplex calling frequency. Once contact is established, the operators should move to a different frequency. Note that some areas operate on 15 KHz simplex channels and some with 20 KHz simplex channels. There is usually a setting on the radio to manage the channel spacing.

If you look at 147 MHz, you will see that the repeater offsets are different depending on which side of 147 MHz you are operating. That is probably why your radio is showing "+" and "-" as you change frequency. I have an old 2 Meter radio that doesn't switch automatically.
Logged
Martin - K7MEM
http://www.k7mem.com

W9SA

  • Member
  • Posts: 15
Re: Yaesu 2980r Questions - Simplex, Frequency Stepping +, -
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2021, 08:28:05 AM »

Repeater vs. simplex operation can be confusing at first.  Repeater operation will have an offset no matter what band you operate (6m, 2m, 220, 440 etc.).  Many times you will also need to use a tone.  I use the Repeater Book and it gives all the info you need to use the repeaters in any area.
Logged

K0UA

  • Member
  • Posts: 9589
Re: Yaesu 2980r Questions - Simplex, Frequency Stepping +, -
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2021, 10:26:20 AM »

To the original poster (Christopher), after all of this, do you have a good understanding of WHY there is an offset either plus or minus in frequency and a good idea how an FM repeater works? If not, lets us know and we will try to help. If you would prefer a one on one conversation, contact me and we can exchange telephone numbers and chat if you would like.  73  James K0UA
Logged
73  James K0UA

K6CPO

  • Member
  • Posts: 839
Re: Yaesu 2980r Questions - Simplex, Frequency Stepping +, -
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2021, 12:22:16 PM »

To the original poster (Christopher), after all of this, do you have a good understanding of WHY there is an offset either plus or minus in frequency and a good idea how an FM repeater works? If not, lets us know and we will try to help. If you would prefer a one on one conversation, contact me and we can exchange telephone numbers and chat if you would like.  73  James K0UA

This might help...  This is possibly the best explanation of repeater operation I have see in my years as a ham.

http://www.alpinelakes.net/uploads/2/2/5/9/22591368/repeater-basics_jon-perelstein__1_.pdf
Logged

K0UA

  • Member
  • Posts: 9589
Re: Yaesu 2980r Questions - Simplex, Frequency Stepping +, -
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2021, 03:42:44 PM »

To the original poster (Christopher), after all of this, do you have a good understanding of WHY there is an offset either plus or minus in frequency and a good idea how an FM repeater works? If not, lets us know and we will try to help. If you would prefer a one on one conversation, contact me and we can exchange telephone numbers and chat if you would like.  73  James K0UA

This might help...  This is possibly the best explanation of repeater operation I have see in my years as a ham.

http://www.alpinelakes.net/uploads/2/2/5/9/22591368/repeater-basics_jon-perelstein__1_.pdf

That was a simple and excellent presentation..  Tnx for posting that.
Logged
73  James K0UA

KB3QWC

  • Posts: 28
    • HomeURL
Re: Yaesu 2980r Questions - Simplex, Frequency Stepping +, -
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2021, 04:25:56 PM »

There are simplex frequencies in other parts of the band.  Some are 147.525 and 147.57.  You need to  check with your local repeater coordinator, since they generally list simplex channels and some areas use 15 khz spacing while others use 20 khz. 

In my local area many hams stay on simplex and don't use repeater much.
Logged

KC7MAW

  • Member
  • Posts: 77
    • homeURL
Re: Yaesu 2980r Questions - Simplex, Frequency Stepping +, -
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2021, 12:48:43 PM »

 

It may very well be necessary to transmit Simplex in the Repeater Sub-Bands.  There are EMCOMM plans that include/require Simplex operation on repeater input or output frequencies as backup communications channels.  These channels may be implemented during drills and real emergencies.  Pretty good idea to get them programmed into the radio prior to needing them.   

Here is a snippet from the manual. 

Quote

The ARS function is enabled at the factory. To disable it:1. Press and hold in the [ MHz ( SET )] key for one second,then rotate the DIAL knob to select "4 ARS".2. Press the [ MHz ( SET )] key, then rotate the DIAL knob tochange the display to "OFF".3. Press and hold in the [ MHz ( SET )] key for one second tosave your new setting and exit to normal operation.

Unquote
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up