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Author Topic: Another one of those "Which is the best" Radio Threads  (Read 800 times)

KX5ALC

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Another one of those "Which is the best" Radio Threads
« on: August 29, 2021, 07:15:51 PM »

Hey Elmers..................I'm getting into CW and I "think" I've found the radio that best fits my budget limit and qualifies itself from what little I know about radios.  (gently used Kenwood TS-590SG) I'm a new Tech and going to be starting on my General soon, but will be starting CW lessons with LICW Club within the next few weeks.  Right now all I have in the way of a radio is an Icom 2200H 2-Meter mobile.  So I'm looking for my first HF rig.  Can anyone give me recommendations as to what they consider the "best" radio for pulling in CW signals?  Looking for a radio with much better "hearing" than my old ears!   ;D

73 Chris KX5ALC
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ZL1BBW

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Re: Another one of those "Which is the best" Radio Threads
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2021, 11:05:11 PM »

A mate in Gland has a 590 reckons its good and I trust his opinion on CW, for me, I really loved my Icom IC7410 it was a great piece of kit for general CW working, but sold it to help fund a IC7610 which is better than great.
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ex MN Radio Officer, Portishead Radio GKA, BT Radio Amateur Morse Tester.  Licensed as G3YCP ZL1DAB, now taken over my father (sk) call as ZL1BBW.

VE3EY

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Re: Another one of those "Which is the best" Radio Threads
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2021, 06:37:46 AM »

Hey Elmers..................I'm getting into CW and I "think" I've found the radio that best fits my budget limit and qualifies itself from what little I know about radios.  (gently used Kenwood TS-590SG) I'm a new Tech and going to be starting on my General soon, but will be starting CW lessons with LICW Club within the next few weeks.  Right now all I have in the way of a radio is an Icom 2200H 2-Meter mobile.  So I'm looking for my first HF rig.  Can anyone give me recommendations as to what they consider the "best" radio for pulling in CW signals?  Looking for a radio with much better "hearing" than my old ears!   ;D

73 Chris KX5ALC

Hi Chris.
TS-590SG is definitely not an entry level radio, yet its price on the used marked is very reasonable.   Many top level contesters around are using this RIG. 

Another great CW rig would be a new Yaesu FTDX10 but it costs about $1800 new.    There are other good CW rigs out there, but the price tends to become exponential for bells and whistles you may not require at this point. 

IMHO you have made an excellent choice. 
73
Nick, VE3EY
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KX5ALC

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Re: Another one of those "Which is the best" Radio Threads
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2021, 06:56:22 AM »

Thanks, guys.  The Ic-7410 is both discontinued and pretty long in the tooth as far as repair parts goes..........and the 7610 is way above my pay grade, as is the FTDX10.  The TS590SG is selling for an average of around $950 at this time............and is still in production.  Which to me says they will be supporting it with parts for a good while yet............maybe as long as I own it.  And $950 is at the upper ranges of my budget for a radio.  And it's been a real workhorse since 2010.  Icom seems to come out with a newer model almost as fast as automobiles.  But my question is really about it's "ears" with concern to CW.  Is there a radio that pulls out CW better than another, or are they all pretty much the same?  (I'm a newbie to all of this)
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K1VSK

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Re: Another one of those "Which is the best" Radio Threads
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2021, 07:24:49 AM »

.  But my question is really about it's "ears" with concern to CW.  Is there a radio that pulls out CW better than another, or are they all pretty much the same?  (I'm a newbie to all of this)



Many of us including my contemporaries used what is today considered archaic equipment including war surplus receivers with great success. By comparison, even the worst receiver today is better than what we all used when starting out.

It’s also important to note that receiving CW is actually easier than any other mode.

The comments in response to questions like this are generally subjective based on what someone bought (pride of ownership) or simple lack of a broader perspective.

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KX5ALC

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Re: Another one of those "Which is the best" Radio Threads
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2021, 07:35:35 AM »

Thanks for that.  Yes, many, if not most responses will be subjective.  But enough responses might give me an accumulative idea as to what is considered by most to be a good radio for the purpose. But I hear operators talking about this radio has "this" particular filter or "that" particular filter that makes it better or worse for CW or voice transmission or voice reception.  I feel reasonably comfortable with my choice............but have made that choice previously and had several people say "no-no-no, that radio has this problem or that problem".  As a newbie I'm in that place where I have to admit "I don't know what I don't know".
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K7JQ

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Re: Another one of those "Which is the best" Radio Threads
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2021, 07:53:14 AM »

Unless you buy used, the TS-590SG is $1,400. More in line with your budget is the Icom IC-7300 at $1,000 new, after rebate. I've had many radios in my 62 years as a ham, and primarily a CW contester.

I presently own two 7300's in SO2R contest configuration, and find them as good a performer for 95% of my operating as any radio I've ever owned. The DSP filtering is continuously variable down to 50Hz, giving you great rejection of close-in signals. It has the latest SDR technology, and the built-in panadapter/waterfall is, to me, essential in any modern day radio...something the TS590 lacks. The newer Icom radios are (free) firmware upgradable, so the idea that they constantly come out with new models really doesn't apply anymore.

The TS-590SG is an excellent radio, but seemingly out of your budget range, if buying new. Just my experience and opinion. Good luck with whatever you decide on.

Bob K7JQ
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KX5ALC

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Re: Another one of those "Which is the best" Radio Threads
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2021, 08:27:54 AM »

Thanks for that, Bob,  but I have no desire to buy a new radio, so as I've previously mentioned, I'm talking used prices.  I know I must be weird, but the 7300 doesn't interest me in the least.  Most of my friends either have one or are lusting for one.  My lust leans toward Kenwoods.  Some guys like red-heads, some blondes.  I'm kind of the former.  ;D
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K7JQ

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Re: Another one of those "Which is the best" Radio Threads
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2021, 09:22:12 AM »

Thanks for that, Bob,  but I have no desire to buy a new radio, so as I've previously mentioned, I'm talking used prices.  I know I must be weird, but the 7300 doesn't interest me in the least.  Most of my friends either have one or are lusting for one.  My lust leans toward Kenwoods.  Some guys like red-heads, some blondes.  I'm kind of the former.  ;D

Okey-doke. I wondered why you didn't mention the popular 7300 in your price range  ;). Certainly nothing wrong with the TS-590. As someone else mentioned, a world-class CW contest operator in my contest club uses a pair of them. And thanks for getting into CW...we need more ops interested in that mode. Enjoy!

Bob K7JQ
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K3TS

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Re: Another one of those "Which is the best" Radio Threads
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2021, 09:45:13 AM »

I have been using my TS-590sg for almost 5 years now, and have made over 40,000 contacts with it, probably two-thirds of which were on CW. The receiver, like most modern receivers, offers excellent performance and good filtering. Where the 590sg excels is in the areas of features and operating conveniences, like separate jacks for straight key and paddle; easy control of RX pitch and sidetone; a "CW Tune" button for accurate RX tuning, and even a fairly good built-in code reader.  These features, combined with the superb ergonomics of the front panel, make the TS-590sg a particularly fine CW rig. It may not have a fancy touch screen, band scope, or even a multi-color panel display; but if what is important to you is hearing and sending CW with no stress or strain, the Kenwood TS-590sg is an excellent choice, and a great value. And it sounds pretty good on phone as well!

de K3TS
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AE0Q

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Re: Another one of those "Which is the best" Radio Threads
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2021, 10:20:15 AM »

I "think" I've found the radio that best fits my budget limit and qualifies itself from what little I know about radios.  (gently used Kenwood TS-590SG)

Not mentioned yet are two features to compare when looking at a radio for CW performance are roofing filters and the IF DSP filtering.  The TS-590SG has a 500Hz filter that is selected when the IF DSP filters are at 500Hz or narrower, and the IF DSP selections are 50 Hz, 80 Hz, 100 Hz, 150 Hz, 200 Hz, 250 Hz, 300 Hz, 400 Hz, 500 Hz, 600 Hz, 1000 Hz, 1500 Hz, 2000 Hz, and 2500 Hz.

Various radios have other IF DSP filter selections, some fairly limited, some with more selections.

You can always compare radios to their absolute performance on the Sherwood Receiver Test Data list, but any receiver in the top 30 is probably as good as anyone with typical antennas can use.  It's easy to get bogged down with absolute specs but the minor differences probably cannot be heard :-)

http://www.sherweng.com/table.html

Another transceiver with performance near that of the TS-590 is a TenTec Eagle, a bit less on used market.  Has same CW filters and simpler to use (less menus), a bit smaller.  I have two, one for home and one in a transit case with equipment I use for portable WWFF/POTA park activating.  Easy to use and awesome on CW.

Glenn AE0Q
« Last Edit: August 30, 2021, 10:43:05 AM by AE0Q »
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G4AON

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Re: Another one of those "Which is the best" Radio Threads
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2021, 10:34:17 AM »

Don’t forget that a spectrum scope is very useful to “see” what is happening near where you are tuned. You can add an outboard SDR to the TS590SG (avoid the 590S) and have it follow your tuning, add cluster spots to the spectrum, click on the screen and have the radio jump to that frequency, etc. The SDR Play receivers will do that for you, although their cluster plug-in is not particularly well written, last time I checked it needed a rewrite in order to work with some clusters.

Despite what you might have heard, the IC-7300 works well on CW. I’ve just sold my K3, awaiting a K4, and my IC-7300 works just fine on CW and the spectrum display isn’t bad either. Just turn the RF gain down a bit as the receiver is very lively on the lower bands. There is no sign of character shortening, overshoot, or anything else untoward on CW. On HF I am nearly 100% CW and have been for many years.

73 Dave
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AE0Q

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Re: Another one of those "Which is the best" Radio Threads
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2021, 11:55:43 AM »

a "CW Tune" button for accurate RX tuning

Ahh, so THAT's why so many are  _exactly_  zerobeat when calling me when I activate parks on CW.  I prefer to work the faster stations but when it's all one solid tone all you can do is try to get the last (usually slowest) one to quit sending :-(   That's one feature I can do without...

I wish people would spread out when calling in a pileup, no matter how modest the "pile" is :-)

Glenn AE0Q
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K1VSK

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Re: Another one of those "Which is the best" Radio Threads
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2021, 12:27:19 PM »

a "CW Tune" button for accurate RX tuning

Ahh, so THAT's why so many are  _exactly_  zerobeat when calling me when I activate parks on CW.  I prefer to work the faster stations but when it's all one solid tone all you can do is try to get the last (usually slowest) one to quit sending :-(   That's one feature I can do without...

I wish people would spread out when calling in a pileup, no matter how modest the "pile" is :-)

Glenn AE0Q

Being slightly off frequency is a trick many of us learned long ago to be heard among the crowd. I won’t elaborate which way as one is preferable and needs to be learned rather than taught.
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KB1NO

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Re: Another one of those "Which is the best" Radio Threads
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2021, 12:53:34 PM »

I'm replying to your comment that a used TS-590SG is at the top end of your budget.
You may want to consider a TS-590S instead.  They seem to sell used for $600-700.   The SG does have some improvements,  but I have a ham acquaintance who has one of each and says the performance is not that different practically speaking.   Though one advantage of the "SG" is that it's a lot easier to add an external SDR as a panadapter vs the "S,"  because it has an IF output.    You can add the output with a buffer board from Dave  KD2C to add a panadapter to the "S" but it's a little invasive.   The "SG" is also newer, of course.
If you haven't seen it, check out G3NRW's web page.  Has great information on what to look for,  serial number ranges, etc.
http://g3nrw.net/TS-590/
Overall, the TS-590 is a nice solid radio.   
GL,
John, KB1NO 

     
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