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Author Topic: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?  (Read 2383 times)

W7XTV

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Re: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2021, 07:58:54 PM »

If the ARRL had gotten its way in 1963, Generals would have lost ALL phone privileges below 10 meters.  That was part of the original ARRL Incentive Licensing proposal.  I'm willing to bet, based on what I've read in ham magazines from that era, the league thought they could ram this through the FCC at will.  Fortunately, the FCC shot it down and created the compromise that took effect in 1968.
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N2EY

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Re: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2021, 07:41:42 AM »

If the ARRL had gotten its way in 1963, Generals would have lost ALL phone privileges below 10 meters.  That was part of the original ARRL Incentive Licensing proposal.  I'm willing to bet, based on what I've read in ham magazines from that era, the league thought they could ram this through the FCC at will.  Fortunately, the FCC shot it down and created the compromise that took effect in 1968.

You're mistaken. You've left out WAY too many facts. For example, 160 was never part of incentive licensing.

Here's what REALLY happened:

1) Before mid-February 1953, Generals and Conditionals had NO 'phone privileges at all on the bands between 2.5 and 25 MHz. To use voice modes on those bands required an Advanced (old Class A) or Extra license. Generals and Conditionals could use CW everywhere on those bands.

2) In mid-February 1953, the FCC completely reversed that policy and gave full privileges to Generals and Conditionals. This meant that four of the six license classes back then had full privileges, and there was no operational reason to go beyond General or Conditional.

3) The original 1963 ARRL incentive licensing proposal was simply to reopen the Advanced license to new issues and return to how things had been before the Great Giveaway of 1952/53.

4) Under the original 1963 ARRL proposal, all a General or Advanced would need to do to get full privileges would be to pass the Advanced written exam. No additional code tests, no experience requirement, just one 50 question written test.

5) Under the original 1963 ARRL proposal, the loss of 'phone privileges would be phased in over a period of years so that existing Generals and Conditionals would have time to study for and pass the Advanced test and upgrade before losing any privileges.

6) Then as now, FCC would not make any such change without formal comments, reply comments, and other steps. No group could "ram through" any such changes without everyone having a chance to have their say.

7) The original 1963 ARRL proposal caused others to write proposals - at least 10 other proposals were sent to FCC and given RM numbers. There were thousands of comments filed - and this was back when there was no internet, no word processors, and even things like copy machines were very rare.

8] The end result was a conglomeration of changes that went into effect in stages starting in 1967. Nobody lost privileges until November 1968.

What drove "incentive licensing" was the perception that US amateurs were falling behind, and becoming nothing more than "appliance operators". The early 1960s were a time when the Soviet Union was ahead in the Space Race, when JFK asked that we face the New Frontier, go on 50 mile hikes, join the Peace Corps, etc., when schools got the New Math and enhanced science programs. Amateur Radio was not immune to that perception.

The reality was that the introduction of the Novice license in 1951, plus post-WW2 prosperity, military surplus, the growth of the suburbs and the middle class, and developments in electronics had resulted in a rapid increase in the number of US hams. At the end of WW2 there were maybe 60,000 US amateurs - by 1963 the numbers were four times that many. These factors also led to most US hams building kits or using manufactured gear rather than homebrewing or converting surplus.

Most of all, the Great Giveaway of 52/53 meant that once the General or Conditional was earned, many new hams thought they'd "done it all" and were "set for life".

A typical path was to get the Novice license, work like mad to get on the air, get the code speed to 13 wpm, study various books on the General test, and get the General or Conditional before the Novice year ended. Once that G or C license was in hand, the new ham could relax.....and many did.

FCC had expected that many hams would go on to the Extra "because it was there" - but, according to the 1963 Callbook, there were only 3,164 Extras out of 254,420 amateurs in the 48 CONUS states. That's 1.2% - not enough to satisfy FCC.
 
Read some more magazines from that time - in particular the QST articles that detail the whys and wherefores. Get the FULL picture.



« Last Edit: October 20, 2021, 07:55:22 AM by N2EY »
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AC2EU

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Re: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2021, 07:49:58 AM »

Quote
So my solution would be - mandatory CW exam with General license, no restrictions for CW but you can keep those “SSB heavens”, we don’t need them. Personally, I’m just too old for all the theoretical physics and math questions, but I can still send/receive CW at 25-35 WPM, build my own antennas, operate radio equipment and tune my PC for digital modes… if that counts for nothing, then what does? All the knowledge of radio physics does not make one a good radio operator if all he/she can do is chat in SSB about weather all day long - or am I wrong?

So,Why didn't you upgrade when you were younger? The "theoretical physics and math questions"  are middle
 school level at best.
There are children who have Extra licenses!
If your mental capacity is so diminished, how well can you operate a radio?

Not everyone wants to be a CW op. In fact I was one of them who avoided AR because of that requirement.
Ironically now that I got my "no code Extra" , I proceeded to learn CW and it is now my primary mode.
Unfortunately, many fists are so bad, it makes copying them very difficult. At least phone coms are always intelligible.
I can't send at 25 WPM, but my 16 WPM is "clean" with no swings ,spaceless streams,or dit daaaaaaah bug nonsense.

If only more OPs were concerned with sending legitimate Morse code, that would be great!

K7TAR

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Re: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2021, 07:03:59 AM »

Thanks Everyone for some really great comments and history lessons. I’m going to give it a shot, just got the “good book” delivered…
73! Andy
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K0UA

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Re: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2021, 07:54:36 AM »

Thanks Everyone for some really great comments and history lessons. I’m going to give it a shot, just got the “good book” delivered…
73! Andy

Andy, we are all pulling for you to get that Extra. I might suggest looking at the interactive "ham test online" learning method. It does cost $35 for the Extra, I know a little about it because the wife is studying it now to get her Extra. It seems to be a good program as it continues to monitor your weak areas and it stresses the curriculum and test to bolster the areas you are weak in. I am not suggesting you cannot succeed with just a book study guide, because I did it that way, but if you want more, you might look at Ham Test online.
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73  James K0UA

KM1H

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Re: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2021, 09:22:19 AM »

Quote
What drove "incentive licensing" was the perception that US amateurs were falling behind, and becoming nothing more than "appliance operators". The early 1960s were a time when the Soviet Union was ahead in the Space Race, when JFK asked that we face the New Frontier, go on 50 mile hikes, join the Peace Corps, etc., when schools got the New Math and enhanced science programs. Amateur Radio was not immune to that perception.

Perception NO, reality YES from someone who was actually there. The flood of Generals scattered on all bands then was almost as bad as Generals and Techs today when it comes to knowing much of anything about the technical/engineering side of the hobby.

Apparently the Feds no longer consider hams a resource in times of need.
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K1FBI

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Re: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2021, 10:38:48 AM »

Verizon works over the horizon, so it’s not too surprisin’, they don’t need no stinkin’ Hams with badges!

 ;D
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K6BRN

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Re: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2021, 12:15:34 PM »

There has always been this ongoing pixxing contest regarding what the standards should be to have an amateur radio license.

With regard to personal opinions on the forums, it always seems to come down to this:

An applicant has to prove he or she is "... at least as good as I THINK I am ...", no matter if that "I" person is a high school dropout, pilot, technician, engineer or Nobel laureate.

Pretty subjective and funny, if you think about it.  And no operator, no matter how bad their habits EVER says "I don't belong here!".

The simple fact is, 99.99999% of hams today couldn't repair a modern radio, let alone build one (unless its a "Lego" kit) to save their lives, nor do they have access to the equipment needed to do so.  And it was pretty much the same back in the '60's.  (Remember Heathkit, Allied, etc.?).

Regardless of skill level, the hobby can be enjoyed well as long as we are cooperative and respectful of each other.  That and a little reading regarding the very, very, very basic operating rules we do have will carry the day.  And as far as "saving the world via ham radio...", remember that all the movie scenarios depict this as the world ending.  Back to reality ...

Even "Appliance Operators" can be useful in an emergency, even a small one like a riot, if they are approached by police or other authorities to help out - not so much if they simply "butt in".  This happens.  Sometimes.  But very rarely.  Usually on VHF/UHF FM voice.  But not always.

Just having comms gear available and set up can help,in an  unofficial capacity, during anything from a hurricane to and earthquake.  Then there are sometimes helpful services such as MARS.

But when was the last time any ham was asked:  "Hey!  We're in dire need here and you HAVE to call for help using ...CW...  nothing else will do!"  You MIGHT be comfortable doing this via CW, but there also so many other modes to choose from, including SSB.  Just depends on the conditions, power available and number of users who can work you. 

This mostly a hobby for self entertainment that can sometimes be useful.

So, personally, I LIKE non-technical, appliance operators who step into this hobby and welcome them with open arms.  Many DO like to pick up as much operator and technology skills as they can fit into their life schedule - and they become very pleasant people to work and talk to.

Real estate agents, low level technicians, engineers, homemakers ... variety in life is good.  All that's really needed in this hobby is a shared passion for it and a willingness to be friendly.

Have a great day!

Brian - K6BRN
« Last Edit: October 23, 2021, 12:18:22 PM by K6BRN »
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KM1H

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Re: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2021, 02:38:30 PM »

You forgot used car and insurance salesmen.
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KD2TTM

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Re: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2021, 02:49:11 PM »

I’ve been questioning ARRL band restrictions...

Let's start with the fact that they not "ARRL band restrictions".
They're FCC regulations.
To find out why they're there ---whether you like what you find our not-- go to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio_licensing_in_the_United_States#Incentive_licensing
Scroll down to section 3.4 "Incentive Licensing" and start reading from there.
 ;)

I'm thinking this thread might have had a friendlier tone if KS2G's response had been the first one.   ;)
His incentive licensing link leads to a straight answer!
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K6BRN

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Re: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?
« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2021, 05:07:42 PM »

You forgot used car and insurance salesmen.

Thanks, Carl.  Yes - them, too.  And veterans and veterinarians.

Brian - K6BRN
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K7MEM

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Re: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2021, 02:46:18 AM »

You forgot used car and insurance salesmen.

Thanks, Carl.  Yes - them, too.  And veterans and veterinarians.

Brian - K6BRN

And the Butcher, the Baker, and Candle Stick Maker.

In the mid 60's, I operated a lot of 2 Meter AM. One of the regulars on the band was a Baker that operated from his Bakery, while he was waiting for his bread to rise. We use to talk regularly.
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Martin - K7MEM
http://www.k7mem.com

W9FIB

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Re: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2021, 04:38:14 AM »

And farmers too!

I worked a couple summers on a farm where I was driving a tractor most of the day. Put a mag mount on the tractor and used me HT and passed a lot of time with conversations through the local repeater.
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73, Stan
Travelling the world one signal at a time.

KM1H

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Re: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2021, 09:49:36 AM »

You forgot used car and insurance salesmen.

Thanks, Carl.  Yes - them, too.  And veterans and veterinarians.

Brian - K6BRN

What do you have against veterans?
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K3UIM

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Re: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2021, 10:00:04 AM »

You forgot used car and insurance salesmen.

Thanks, Carl.  Yes - them, too.  And veterans and veterinarians.

Brian - K6BRN

What do you have against veterans?
Yah! What?
 :'( ::) :o ;D
Charlie
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Charlie. K3UIM
Where you are: I was!
Where I am: You will be!
So be nice to us old fogies!!
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