Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8   Go Down

Author Topic: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?  (Read 2387 times)

KV1P

  • Posts: 49
    • HomeURL
Re: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?
« Reply #60 on: February 24, 2022, 06:59:53 AM »

You just cannot make this stuff up!!! This like watching a show on TV.
Logged

K1FBI

  • Member
  • Posts: 1475
Re: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?
« Reply #61 on: February 24, 2022, 10:18:52 AM »

It's called incentive licensing. If you don't have the discipline or knowledge to upgrade , which is not that difficult, you really don't need the additional band privileges.
If all it does is give you a little sliver of space to hang out with the arrogant and self-righteous, who would want it anyway?
Logged

K4PIH

  • Member
  • Posts: 117
Re: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?
« Reply #62 on: February 24, 2022, 11:00:18 AM »

What more do you want as General class? You've invented the time machine!
Logged

N7EKU

  • Member
  • Posts: 1471
Re: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?
« Reply #63 on: February 24, 2022, 11:02:38 AM »

According to statistics, 73.6% or all statistics are made up.

Samuel Clemens ( Mark Twain) once wrote; "there are lies, damn lies, and statistics!"
Still true today!

Hmm,

We'd be almost nowhere in this modern world without statistics!!!!

https://www.worldofstatistics.org/statistics-as-a-career/statisticians-at-work/

73  8)
Logged
Mark -- N7EKU/VE3

K4GTE

  • Posts: 178
    • HomeURL
Re: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?
« Reply #64 on: February 24, 2022, 11:55:38 AM »

It's called incentive licensing. If you don't have the discipline or knowledge to upgrade , which is not that difficult, you really don't need the additional band privileges.
If all it does is give you a little sliver of space to hang out with the arrogant and self-righteous, who would want it anyway?

Obviously you've never listened to Extra Class conversations. If you believe all extra class operators are arrogant and self righteous, you haven't listened much. You'd be surprised on what you could learn, it's a very large knowledge pool.
Logged

K1FBI

  • Member
  • Posts: 1475
Re: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?
« Reply #65 on: February 24, 2022, 11:58:32 AM »

It's called incentive licensing. If you don't have the discipline or knowledge to upgrade , which is not that difficult, you really don't need the additional band privileges.
If all it does is give you a little sliver of space to hang out with the arrogant and self-righteous, who would want it anyway?

Obviously you've never listened to Extra Class conversations. If you believe all extra class operators are arrogant and self righteous, you haven't listened much. You'd be surprised on what you could learn, it's a very large knowledge pool.
Very Large like a cesspool....I've heard my share. But, if you say so I'll pat you on the back and give you an attaboy.
Logged

K6BRN

  • Member
  • Posts: 2231
Re: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?
« Reply #66 on: February 24, 2022, 06:51:18 PM »

Nothing wrong with incentive licensing - to get something you have to accomplish something relevant.  And that bar is already set so low, with multiple choice question pools open to everyone, that it's simply a filter that blocks those who want something ... for nothing.
Logged

W9FIB

  • Member
  • Posts: 3501
    • HomeURL
Re: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?
« Reply #67 on: February 25, 2022, 04:20:13 AM »

Nothing wrong with incentive licensing - to get something you have to accomplish something relevant.  And that bar is already set so low, with multiple choice question pools open to everyone, that it's simply a filter that blocks those who want something ... for nothing.

+1
Logged
73, Stan
Travelling the world one signal at a time.

K3XR

  • Posts: 245
    • HomeURL
Re: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?
« Reply #68 on: February 25, 2022, 05:14:11 AM »

I think this covers it rather well..." Society is being dumbed down by an unfortunate trend of valuing feelings and appearances over facts and utility or moral rectitude. People are encouraged by social pressure not to pursue the discovery of truth or to act according to empirical evidence or factual knowledge".
Logged

N2EY

  • Member
  • Posts: 5698
Re: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?
« Reply #69 on: February 25, 2022, 05:46:08 AM »

If I am correct it was the ARRL who petitioned the FCC for Incentive Licensing and the 'band segments'.

Not really. The story is much more complicated.

In 1963 the ARRL proposed that the rules be changed back to the way they were before February 1953. Under that original proposal, the Advanced license would be reopened to new privileges, and it would require an Advanced or Extra license to operate 'phone modes on the amateur bands between 2.5 and 25 MHz - just as it had before the changes of Feb '53 gave away all privileges to Generals and Conditionals.

The 1963 ARRL proposal also included that the changes would have been phased in over several years, to give amateurs a chance to upgrade without losing any privileges. All it would take to keep full privileges was to pass the Advanced written test - one test of about 50 questions on theory and regulations. (I passed the Advanced at age 14 in the summer of 1968, between 8th and 9th grade, and it wasn't difficult at all.)

The 1963 ARRL proposal caused other groups and individuals to write their own proposals, and within a year or so there were at least 10 different proposals to change the license structure. One of them - NOT the ARRL proposal - involved subbands-by-license-class.

FCC took a bit of this and a bit of that and in 1965 or so released their proposal, which went much farther than what ARRL had proposed. Under that proposal, the Advanced would be replaced by a new "Amateur First" class license, with 16 wpm code and a new written exam, existing Advanceds would be demoted to General, and full privileges would require an Extra. Also, everyone's callsign would indicate their license class, and you'd get a new callsign every time you upgraded. Some callsigns would only be available to old-timers licensed before 1932.

ARRL and others then had the task of getting FCC to tone down the proposal, and most of the worst parts were removed. The final form went into effect in 1968.

What sparked all this was the perception that US hams were falling behind their Soviet counterparts in technology and operating skills. Remember that the early 1960s were a time of "Sputnik fever", the Cold War, and JFK's "New Frontier" mindset.

That's the short history, there's a lot more detail.

It caused a major stir at the time and many left amateur radio.

A few may have left. But most stayed - and once the new system was in place, our numbers grew and grew.

Even Wayne Greene of 73 Magazine refused to 'upgrade'.

Ol' Wayne had an Advanced when all the fuss started. Under "incentive licensing" he didn't lose many privileges. If the original 1963 proposal had been enacted, he wouldn't have lost any.

He was a slick con artist who never let facts or sound reasoning get in the way of selling his magazines.

The sour part was demoting (seems the most recent licenses were demoted and those not tested in decades stayed the same) people who already had privileges and passed probably a harder test when they got the license.

NO.

Where do you get such ideas?

No one was "demoted". Everyone kept their existing license.

What DID happen was that Generals, Conditionals and Advanceds lost SOME privileges. That's all. And those privileges could be regained by passing a test or two.

Claims that the old tests were "harder" are easily disproved by looking at the study guides of old License Manuals.

The REAL problem was one of "entitlement mindset". A lot of hams back then had been licensed after 1953. They'd started as Novices, learned just enough code and theory to get a General or Conditional, then sat back and said to themselves "I'm ENTITLED to FULL privileges FOREVER".

The idea that they might have to pass another test or two terrified them.

Petitions to FCC to change what the ARRL did never went anywhere. Probably because the ARRL did not support such.

Nope. Wrong again.

The ARRL didn't change the rules, FCC did. And FCC kept on changing them, widening the 'phone subbands, adding privileges, and making other changes.

Time passes. Few remember those days.

Even fewer remember them accurately. I was there, I remember - and I've researched the history and written about it.

I supported a CW test. The most simple way to communicate. If people understand music CW is hard ? How many variables in music ?

The FCC started phasing out CW testing in the 1970s. The ARRL opposed the changes but FCC kept persisting. The last remnant of CW testing disappeared 15 years ago.

brain is different I guess. Some of the smartest I would guess can not digest short and long tones. Yes. Society does not use it anymore. (wonder why ?)

Commercial applications stopped using Morse Code decades ago because it cost them money. Amateurs use it all the time.

Do YOU use Morse Code on the air? Ever?

To me digesting test questions does not permanent stay in ones brain. Some have short term memory. Me ? I can not remember anything from 5 minutes ago but remember everything from 50 years ago. Hey..the test pool expires by the time I remember it !!

Is that why you never upgraded?

Once the test had no question-answer pool to remember. Had to travel to a FCC office. Extra's that got their license prior to mid-60's ?

The question-answer pools became public in the early 1980s, when the VEC system was created. That was FCC's idea, to save money.

Logged

AC2EU

  • Member
  • Posts: 2793
    • McVey Electronics
Re: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?
« Reply #70 on: February 25, 2022, 08:19:47 AM »

K7TAR is essentially demanding his "participation award" for learning and/or doing NOTHING.

The fact that you think the ARRL sets the license criteria demonstrates WHY the FCC needs to set higher standards and reward those who pass with more spectrum.

The Extra is not all that difficult, so put in a little effort for once and go pass it.

W9FIB

  • Member
  • Posts: 3501
    • HomeURL
Re: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?
« Reply #71 on: February 26, 2022, 04:55:37 AM »

The Extra is not all that difficult, so put in a little effort for once and go pass it.

Yea it's not difficult. I passed it...LOL
Logged
73, Stan
Travelling the world one signal at a time.

K3UIM

  • Member
  • Posts: 2145
Re: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?
« Reply #72 on: February 26, 2022, 05:49:47 AM »

And then there are those of us that enjoy "tinkering", but not wanting to dive in too far over our heads in formulas, etc, but just  having fun while learning. The perfect ticket in that case would be the General. (At age 88 I don't think one is too likely to grab a license manual and start studying. Hi.) In my case, it's perfect and I'm able to do what I enjoy, "tinkering".

In my earlier years I was able to build a nice transmitter with a pair of 807's that kept me smiling as I worked 47 states on CW. Today I'm happy just heating up the soldering pencil and digging into the present project, (For how long??? We'll cross that bridge when we get to it! LOL)

Charlie
Logged
Charlie. K3UIM
Where you are: I was!
Where I am: You will be!
So be nice to us old fogies!!

W9RAC

  • Member
  • Posts: 63
Re: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?
« Reply #73 on: April 11, 2022, 02:00:05 PM »

Was a day that I considered it worth the effort years ago mostly when I used the bottom part of 80. I am an Extra, with code. I no longer believe its worth the effort any longer considering the upgrade and gaining little advantage of having it. I have not looked the the test close to 20 years and am certain I could not pass it today. So what's the point? Im 50%CW and the balance SSB. I always have been a proponent of the CW being a part of the hobby but as we know its all voluntary today also. I know a lot of quality General Ops. who should have full band privileges, I know Extras that should not have any. Ultimately one class of license will probably be the law of the land like it or not. 73 Rich
Logged

KH6AQ

  • Member
  • Posts: 9292
Re: General license band restrictions - why do we need them?
« Reply #74 on: April 11, 2022, 02:55:03 PM »

For maximizing one's score in CW contesting on 80, 40, 20 and 15 meters an Extra Class license is mandatory. And most DX operates in the lower 25 kHz of the band.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8   Go Up