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Author Topic: Transceiver Selection  (Read 1184 times)

N8FVJ

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Re: Transceiver Selection
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2021, 05:32:03 AM »

I posed same question at QRZ and a ham with poor ears stated the Yaesu FTDX-10 with the equalizer (superior to a IC-7610) and an outboard speaker worked for him. Others reported exceptional receive audio on eHam reviews. $2K less than the TS-890S, so I will give it a try. I do not use two receivers and the FTDX10 has basically the more expensive FTDX-101D receiver. Appears to be a good deal. My house is being built and will finish end of Dec. So, will order in December. Hopefully the FTDX-10 will be on sale for the first time as Ham sales are common in December.
Yaesu FTDX-10 has a three band equalizer. Bass, Mid and Treble boost or cut on the receive audio.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2021, 05:44:45 AM by N8FVJ »
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K0UA

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Re: Transceiver Selection
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2021, 07:06:16 AM »

Don't use two receivers?  How do you find "tail end charlie" in a pileup?  How do you determine the DX stations listening pattern when he is working split?  Color me "baffled in Branson".
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73  James K0UA

KX2T

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Re: Transceiver Selection
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2021, 07:43:32 AM »

James the ten aint bad but that second RX comes in handy for real contesting or DX pile ups. AS far as these comparisons go I would really like to know what ham worth his salt would use an internal speaker for picking out weak signals on a band, a good external speak or se of very good headphones is the way I would go not some little speaker that mostly is firing upwards that sounds like crap which is exactly what you hear between the Kenwood and Icom radio's in two of those you tube reviews.

Then you have the differences between the noise reduction and noise blankers which they all use different algorithms so they all react differently. I have used the Kenwood and they are IMO a little behind rigs like the 7610 and the 101d/mp, the Yaesu and Icom NR act differently but work far better than the kenwood, it seems the Kenwood is behind the times in this area. As far as NB they all are nowhere near perfect, they will reduce noise but at the same time if there is a strong station near by it will almost sound like overload in the receiver if the NB is turned on especially on SSB.

Then is your a DXer or contester that second RX comes in very handy so that is were the 890 comes up short and as far as the K4 well if you go the extra bucks for the second RX then your in the game but frankly Elecraft is a little to late to the party cause by the time they finally ramp up production I am sure Icom and Yaesu will have a new box under there tree.

I think a fully loaded 101MP with all the filters, two VC tune sections fully loaded is the most advanced radio to date and I don't see anything like the VC tune on the K4 series as of yet. I would like to see them make available the options that we the ham's could install ourselves, I have seen the you tube vids and it really is not all that complicated, having a none static rubber mat and wear latex gloves it looks like a walk in the park. I do see some dealers selling fully loaded MP's these day with everything installed right around the same price as a laded K4D but there HD model is still vaporware.
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KX2T

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Re: Transceiver Selection
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2021, 07:45:30 AM »

N2SR, I like that, Buy all three!
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N8FVJ

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Re: Transceiver Selection
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2021, 08:13:00 AM »

Don't use two receivers?  How do you find "tail end charlie" in a pileup?  How do you determine the DX stations listening pattern when he is working split?  Color me "baffled in Branson".
I do not work pile ups. Just casual SSB contacts.
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US7IGN

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Re: Transceiver Selection
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2021, 08:41:51 AM »

Don't use two receivers?  How do you find "tail end charlie" in a pileup?  How do you determine the DX stations listening pattern when he is working split?

I have "dual watch" in my pro3, but I never use it. There is no more stupid advice than to climb into the middle of a pileup without big power and antennas. Better to stand a little aside and call. Sooner or later, DX will come up to you.
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N2SR

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Re: Transceiver Selection
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2021, 10:13:18 AM »

buy all three
Are you kidding?

only you can determine which radio is best for you
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K0UA

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Re: Transceiver Selection
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2021, 12:42:02 PM »

Don't use two receivers?  How do you find "tail end charlie" in a pileup?  How do you determine the DX stations listening pattern when he is working split?

I have "dual watch" in my pro3, but I never use it. There is no more stupid advice than to climb into the middle of a pileup without big power and antennas. Better to stand a little aside and call. Sooner or later, DX will come up to you.

"climbing into the middle" of a pileup is never a good idea, but determining where the DX is listening and placing your signal where he is going to listen next is a sure way to up your chances of getting picked next.

With the DX in one ear on one receiver, and finding "tail end Charlie" with the other ear, you can determine the DX's pattern. If the DX actually has one, and most do.

Do I own transceivers without 2nd receivers? Sure two of them. But when it comes down to working DX, and that usually means pileups, I go for the rig with the two receivers.

If you don't work DX, or it falls into your lap, then yes, 1 receiver will do fine.
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73  James K0UA

K7JQ

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Re: Transceiver Selection
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2021, 05:06:34 AM »

Hmmm....I wonder how many hams are on DXCC Honor Roll that only used a "standard" one-receiver radio with two VFO's and a XFC button? Probably most of them. Two-receiver radios didn't really become popular until the 21st century...Icom 7800, Kenwood 990, Elecraft K3, not sure about Yaesu or Ten-Tec time frames with theirs (I think in the 1990's). Top of the line stuff, big bucks.

No doubt radios with two independent receivers are nice and convenient, but certainly not essential to work DX in split pile-ups. Operating skill helps, but high power and big antennas will usually snag them quicker. One-receiver is fine for FVJ's casual SSB operation.

Bob K7JQ
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AF5CC

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Re: Transceiver Selection
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2021, 10:05:01 PM »

Yaesu FT1000MP came out in 1995, that was probably one of the first really popular radios with 2 receivers.

Around 1990 had the Icom 781, Kenwood TS950, and Yaesu FT1000D.  They all were dual receive but were pretty expensive and more aimed at the contesting crowd.

73 John AF5CC
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NI0C

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Re: Transceiver Selection
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2021, 04:09:15 PM »

Quote
No doubt radios with two independent receivers are nice and convenient, but certainly not essential to work DX in split pile-ups.
Certainly not essential, but extremely helpful. Makes a world of difference when you can listen to the Dx and his pileup continuously, especially using a wide filter on the pileup side. I regret waiting as long as I did before upgrading my K3 with the second Rx.
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K8AC

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Re: Transceiver Selection
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2021, 04:35:57 PM »

First, responding to N8FVJ's question: I recently acquired an IC-7610.  Most of my operating time is spent listening on headphones, but I was struck by how clear the audio is when listening to SSB stations through a speaker.  It appears that Icom's audio amp stages have considerably less distortion than those of Yaesu, the FTDX-5000 for example.  And, the Noise Reduction function works remarkably well without seriously degrading the audio.  I recently read a recommendation from a CW contest operator that you should run the NR all the time on 160 CW.  I had serious doubts about that, but gave it a try in the recent 160 CW contest.  The guy was right - it knocked down the atmospheric noise noticeably without any negative effects noticed.

Second, commenting on K7JQ's post: I'm fortunate to be one of those guys who is #1 Honor Role, and I've had transceivers with two receivers for years.  But, I NEVER, EVER use the second receiver when chasing DX with a split pileup.  My opinion is that the technique of listening to the callers is an archaic approach and far less productive than what I use.  I find that a transceiver with two VFOs and a top notch panadaptor is the best way to go.  By top notch, I mean the panadapter must be a real-time presentation with high resolution and you must be able to narrow down the visible span to 10-20 kHz.  I watch the area of the pileup, using both the spectrum trace and the waterfall, focusing on timing of callers.  With a bit or practice, you learn to spot the station being worked visually.  Of course, there are always a half dozen or more stations who THINK that they're working the DX, but aren't.  At any rate, once I study the freq pattern of the last few successful callers, I make a decision on where to call and nearly always get the DX on the first or second call.  Of the transceivers mentioned, only the 7610 has a proper panadaptor that compares to the best software panadaptor, NaP3. 

73, K8AC
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K7JQ

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Re: Transceiver Selection
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2021, 06:47:51 AM »


Second, commenting on K7JQ's post: I'm fortunate to be one of those guys who is #1 Honor Role, and I've had transceivers with two receivers for years.  But, I NEVER, EVER use the second receiver when chasing DX with a split pileup.  My opinion is that the technique of listening to the callers is an archaic approach and far less productive than what I use.  I find that a transceiver with two VFOs and a top notch panadaptor is the best way to go.  By top notch, I mean the panadapter must be a real-time presentation with high resolution and you must be able to narrow down the visible span to 10-20 kHz.  I watch the area of the pileup, using both the spectrum trace and the waterfall, focusing on timing of callers.  With a bit or practice, you learn to spot the station being worked visually.  Of course, there are always a half dozen or more stations who THINK that they're working the DX, but aren't.  At any rate, once I study the freq pattern of the last few successful callers, I make a decision on where to call and nearly always get the DX on the first or second call.  Of the transceivers mentioned, only the 7610 has a proper panadaptor that compares to the best software panadaptor, NaP3. 

73, K8AC

While I'm not discounting the convenience of a two-receiver radio in DX split pile-ups, K8AC is a prime example of my previous comments, with another aided way of catching the DX with today's newer technology of using a hi-res panadapter to find the station the DX is working. Not using two receivers. Looking at his qrz.com page, he's been a ham since 1959 (same as me), so I'm sure he's worked a great portion of the Honor Roll DX in the past with a one-receiver, no panadapter radio. He can correct me if I'm wrong.

I also notice that he runs (or can run) legal limit, currently with a LPDA yagi. While he's a seasoned, savvy operator, I'm sure that's a big help (like I also pointed out in my previous comments) in snagging the DX "nearly always on the first or second call". I wonder how many ops have achieved Honor Roll with 100W and dipoles/verticals (I'm sure there are some, achieved in better solar cycles). Being loud can't hurt ;).

Bob K7JQ

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KX2T

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Re: Transceiver Selection
« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2021, 07:31:49 AM »

If your looking for the best all around Rag Chew and a great CW rig the 890S would maybe come to mind, built in EQ on the TX side, great roofing filters on CW and a real nice display.

The next one on the Heap which I would say is an all around performer for both Rag Chew and DXing with some contesting mixed in is the 7610 which has a great display, very flexible and you can also use the IQ out for running HDSDR with a display almost similar to the flex but displays do not make the radio perform any better, it doesn't make the RX section any better so its a display and is basically an operator convenience. On the top of the pile

I would place the FTDX101D/MP, this radio was designed mainly for producing the best overall receiver section you can buy on the market, an RX section that doesn't fold easy with a blocking spec which is off the charts not at 100Khz but at 2Khz in which Sherwoods chart doesn't spec it at but the ARRL does. This is the best RX section in this pile and the transmitter is not to shabby either but there display is OK, its usable and functions well but its not the sexy Icom/Kenwood seductive colorful type its more basic and functional and its real time which does take some time to get used to.
The NB is like the rest of the pack but the noise reduction from what I have heard is barking on the heals of the Anan radio's except this one has knobs instead or a mouse click away. So for DXing and heavy contesting I would place the Yaesu on the top of the heap, every control works and works well plus the VC tune which is a front end pre selector works extremely well, the best that is out there at this time and I would like to see how the  FTDX101D/MP fair against the K4HD whenever it comes out cause I think the Yaesu will still top the K4HD in pure RX performance.

After having owned recently the 7610, a K3 in my past and tried a 890s at a friends home I have to say you don't need a super station to hear the lab number differences, the FTDX101D/MP is IMO the best RX section out there bar none so lets see what the K4HD will or will not bring to the table but when it comes to the display the seductive 7610 does a very nice job with the GUI, when I had played with the K4 I thought its GUI was lacking against the Icoms.
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AE0Q

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Re: Transceiver Selection
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2021, 10:05:35 PM »

Two-receiver radios didn't really become popular until the 21st century...Icom 7800, Kenwood 990, Elecraft K3, not sure about Yaesu or Ten-Tec time frames with theirs (I think in the 1990's). Top of the line stuff, big bucks.

Just to comment on the time frame of dual-receive radios, the TenTec Corsair, with the Remote VFO, could listen on two frequencies in the same band at the same time.  The Corsair II was available in 1985.

Yes, it was only in the same band, but the comments were about breaking a DX pileup, it worked very well for that!

Glenn AE0Q
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