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Author Topic: Why Regen's?  (Read 716 times)

K3UIM

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Why Regen's?
« on: November 15, 2021, 10:24:39 AM »

In my teens I tinkered with a "Super Regen receiver, but today I'm wondering why play/work with them? (This from a DC lover?? LOL)

I recall they were really sensitive and a bit touchy as far as tuning goes, which is probably no problem with today's projects.

What is the attraction now? Just wondering.

Charlie
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Charlie. K3UIM
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W1ITT

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Re: Why Regen's?
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2021, 10:43:10 AM »

Without wanting to appear too flippant, the answer to your question is "Why not?"  It's fun, it takes us back to the days of our youth when we were first playing with radios and couldn't afford to do as much as we wanted.  Now, many of us have a few extra dollars...and it doesn't cost much to play with regens, compared to other ham radio paths we could go down.
If any of us had much sense, we'd know that ham radio is an extravagance.  We spend way too much to get a minimal signal report from something called an "entity" and call that fun too.  Whether you build a regen from a vacuum tube or an FET, it's all fun and we might even learn something.  At my age that's always a plus.
73 de Norm W1ITT
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K3UIM

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Re: Why Regen's?
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2021, 11:07:03 AM »

And an excellent answer! Thank you.

I had an HW-8 or 9 back in the early 60's and loved it. I recently discovered it was DC and am intrigued with that circuitry today. (Small world.) So, I see what you mean and am in total agreement with your reasoning. LOL

Although, as far as spending too much??? Only a wife could possibly agree to that!! LOL

Charlie
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K6BRN

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Re: Why Regen's?
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2021, 11:31:45 AM »

Hi Charlie:

While super-regens usually have to have user adjustable feedback for best performance, quite a few low cost AM and shortwave receivers still use a simple regenerative circuit with fixed feedback at the front end - and in the case of AM receivers, also for Q-multiplication of the tuned bar antenna circuit for selectivity - no down-conversion at all.

So regeneration isn't dead.  Just quietly doing its job in other roles by other names.

Thank you Edwin Armstrong.

Brian - K6BRN
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KM1H

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Re: Why Regen's?
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2021, 11:51:49 AM »

My favorite regens are a mid 30's USN RAK and RAL still in service on non combat ships well into the 60's for back ups in Emergency Radio which was also the ET shack.

At age 13 I built a regen out of a Popular Mechanics, it was 5 tubes in a AA5 string that led me in to a Novice at 14. Soon replaced by modified BC-454/BC-455 and then soon into a HQ-129X with a BC-453 while still a Novice so I could use 15M.

Carl
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W1VT

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Re: Why Regen's?
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2021, 12:41:15 PM »

Regens reduced the number of expensive tubes required to get enough amplification to hear a weak signal.
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KL7CW

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Re: Why Regen's?
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2021, 09:24:51 PM »

Back in the 50's many of my first home built receivers were regen's, usually for 40 meters.  You could build a useful receiver with about 2 transistors or battery powered tubes.  They were very tricky to operate, but much fun, and I learned lot's with my successful and not successful experiments.  You really needed 3 hands to adjust the controls.  Initially, I found there was not enough band spread.  I did not have a metal front panel, bit the lack of gear reduction was no problem.  I simply moved my hand, or whole arm around to fine tune a CW signal.  My parents thought I was crazy when they looked in and saw me moving my head and arms around.  Also learned lots about mounting components solidly and also microphonic components.  I learned about dial backlash and even constructed some of my own capacitors for more appropriate band spread.  To my ears the regen (not super regen) had a nice unique sound and I could hear hams thousands of miles away on 40 meters with very simple circuits and a good pair of hi z headphones.  When the KW ham across the street fired up his rig on 80 meters, there was no hope for my 40 meter regen.  Perhaps the experience is kind of like a modern car driver operating a model T or A Ford.
       Many decades later, my early ham experience was very useful to me in my electronics career, and often I could trouble shoot problems that folks with much more formal training did not have a clue about. Try a simple regen for some real fun, and there are modern versions with more reliable regeneration adjustments, etc.
       In the 70's I was the radio op for a few cruises.  The back up (500 KHz ?) receiver was a regen, and it was sensitive enough and operated OK when I tested it a few times.  Probably it had an RF amp and was a big step ahead of my early experiments.  Probably was a pre war 2 design, but believe it was still in use on some merchant ships decades later, but am not positive of this.
                 Rick  KL7CW
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F1CUJ

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Re: Why Regen's?
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2021, 08:40:53 AM »

Hi Charlie

I have built 4 receivers for aircraft band (108-136 Mhz).
With 2 transistors and  1 LM386 you can build a very good receiver.

You can find some interesting discussions in my thread in the same category:
Super regenerative receiver : how to improve the quench ?

B. regards
Philippe
F1CUJ
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K8AXW

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Re: Why Regen's?
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2021, 11:27:23 AM »

Charlie:  I now own a complete, modern, solid-state station, a tower with a big-ass beam. 

I have found it disturbing to realize I found more excitement using my first regen 1-tube receiver 75 years ago.

Some time ago I bought two regen RX PCBs with the idea of giving my grandsons something to play with.  I have never been able to get either of the %%$#@%^'s to work!   ::)  :P
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G3EDM

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Re: Why Regen's?
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2021, 01:50:31 PM »

After decades of dabbling on the edge of ham radio, I finally got on the air in late August of this year.

I operate mono-band on 40m HF.

I started with a simple, three-transistor regenerative receiver (ARRL design) but it turned out to be very "deaf". So I switched to a tube regenerative receiver of my own design, built about seven years ago with massive help from G3RZP among others.

My transmitter is a tube QRP model with about 12W power.

In the 2.5 months I've been on the air I have scored nearly 40 QSOs (with eleven countries) with this primitive rig. It would be fair to say, however, that the regenerative receivers have been one of the key factors holding me back from a much higher QSO count.

My current regenerative receiver is very sensitive, but also as broad as a barn door. It is not unusual for a QSO to be obliterated by QRM from another ham ... 10 KHz away!

Using a regenerative receiver is immense fun but what it has forced me to do, when I am calling CQ, is to choose a quiet segment of the band. If I don't, then when I switch over to RECEIVE, all I will hear is bedlam because I am hearing everything at least 5 KHz plus and minus the centre frequency.

So: I would highly recommend "having a go" at using a regenerative receiver on the air. It has been a blast, as far as I am concerned. But (at least for HF) it is not fruitful in the conditions of 2021: the effort required for each single QSO is immense compared to what you would have with a superhet or SDR or whatever.

One of my key goals in the next few months is building a better receiver. It will not be a regen....

Here's a picture of the receiver:



The entire rig:



73 de Martin, G3EDM
« Last Edit: November 16, 2021, 02:01:04 PM by G3EDM »
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K3UIM

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Re: Why Regen's?
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2021, 02:46:36 PM »

Martin, Great looking home-brewed outfit. (My kind of ham!) LOL

Please, if you haven't already tried Direct Conversion receivers, PLEASE give it a go. I'm enjoying the DC theory very much and have assembled at least 5 of them for CW on 40 meters so far. I especially like hooking up digital readouts and Band Pass Filters to them. (Having a bit of trouble with the readouts, but I'm still plugging along trying to raise the oscillator output enough to power them.) ... sigh ...

Hopefully I'll solve that problem before HE calls me home. <hidden text> Sorry about that, Carl<end text>LOL

I think the most helpful item I've come across with DC receivers has to be the 10 turn pot in the tuning circuit!! Of course, I'm easily pleased!!LOL

Charlie
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Charlie. K3UIM
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G3EDM

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Re: Why Regen's?
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2021, 10:20:31 PM »


I think the most helpful item I've come across with DC receivers has to be the 10 turn pot in the tuning circuit!! Of course, I'm easily pleased!!LOL

Charlie

I built a 20m DC receiver from a Ramsey kit but found the tuning rate with the standard pot, and the tiny dial, useless. I swapped it out for a 10-turn pot with a large dial and the receiver was transformed. It's a pretty good performer.

73 de Martin, G3EDM
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K3UIM

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Re: Why Regen's?
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2021, 07:13:12 AM »

Martin,

Back in the early 60's I also put together a 40 meter Ramsey kit and loved it. (I don't think it was a DC unit though.)

Can you recall the proud sense of accomplishment when you applied power to your first project with the right results?? WOW! What a thrill for a kid back then! Are there any youths doing, or playing with, electronic work today? I'm thinking, understandably, that computer games have taken over. ...sigh...

Sometimes "progress" isn't always better. LOL

Charlie
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K6BRN

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Re: Why Regen's?
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2021, 08:34:54 AM »

Hi Charlie:

Lots of technology oriented kids in my neighborhood, many following in their (engineer) parents footsteps (I live in what is essentially the "AerospaceLand" of Southern California).  Among the kids who like technology, the top three things they seem to "play with" have been:

1.  Robotics (terrestrial)
2.  Rockets and drones
3.  App designs

Both the robotics and rocket/drone pursuits include telemetry and commanding - i.e. radio.  As a result, SOME of them get their amateur radio licenses, but usually as technicians (sometimes higher - they are smart kids) because they are mainly interested in VHF/UHF frequencies.

The local hamfest provides them with SOME of their hardware, but mostly they purchase components on-line.  There are a tremendous number of small preconfigured hardware components inexpensively available for Arduino (etc.) processors, from switches to actuators to GPS to sensors, etc.  They integrate these components and write the software needed to drive them.  The results, from what I've seen, can be quite impressive.

Thats where young technologists seem to be going.

The old thrill of talking to new people across the USA and world seems to have been absorbed by social media (for better or worse), making the long ham tradition of warming your hands by the firey glow of a tube set as you find a new friend on the airwaves during a cold winter night, less attractive.

So the techno-class of kids is still very much there - but seems to have moved on to other pursuits.

I re-retired early this year and part of my job was mentoring new grads.  In fact, quite a few kids are still calling in, even from college and high school, with questions, life plans and project reviews.  They're are smart and involved as they've ever been.  But relatively few seek to become "hams".

This hobby was very attractive before ubiquitous, instant worldwide communications via voice, video, text, data (media) was instantly available to all, from age 3 and up.  Today, we have to find a way to make amateur radio more relevent in the face of all the competition, if we really want to grow it in the younger ranks.  THAT is a difficult problem.

Best Regards,

Brian - K6BRN

« Last Edit: November 17, 2021, 08:38:08 AM by K6BRN »
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K3UIM

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Re: Why Regen's?
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2021, 08:49:56 AM »

Understood, Brian.  :'( ;D
Charlie
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Charlie. K3UIM
Where you are: I was!
Where I am: You will be!
So be nice to us old fogies!!
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