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Author Topic: IC-7300 vs Yaesu FTDX10  (Read 1333 times)

K7JQ

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Re: IC-7300 vs Yaesu FTDX10
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2022, 06:09:21 AM »


I had to operate the IC-7300 DNR at a minimum of 4 setting all the time. No DNR made it a poor noisy receiver, but at 4 setting in the DNR made it great. So, I cannot fault the IC-7300. The IC-7300 DNR is a little more natural sounding vs the FTDX10. But, both DNRs perform so well it is basically a toss up.


I agree that a #4 on the IC-7300 DNR is about the maximum setting before the audio *starts* to muffle a bit, and the volume starts to decrease. Increasing the control further, the noise drops, the audio becomes more muffled, and the volume drops further, but I don’t notice the “watery and chirpy birds” artifacts sound that I always heard on other radio’s DNR’s. The muffling and volume drop is annoying.

To mitigate those effects, I tried the West Mountain CLRdsp unit between the radio and speaker/headphones. To my ears, it really does the job. As you increase the continuously adjustable filter control, the band noise gets cut up to 90%, voices remain clear with no artifacts, and the volume only drops very slightly. Even with the control nearly fully clockwise.
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N8FVJ

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Re: IC-7300 vs Yaesu FTDX10
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2022, 08:59:30 AM »

A 'trick' for the FTDX10 is using an outboard West Mountain DNR speaker in-line with the transceiver DNR. Set Yaesu DNR on 1 for natural sound and use DNR in the West Mountain DNR speaker. Either DNR by itself is not as good as both and both in-line produce the most natural sound. My poor ears are delighted.
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K7JQ

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Re: IC-7300 vs Yaesu FTDX10
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2022, 09:54:49 AM »

A 'trick' for the FTDX10 is using an outboard West Mountain DNR speaker in-line with the transceiver DNR. Set Yaesu DNR on 1 for natural sound and use DNR in the West Mountain DNR speaker. Either DNR by itself is not as good as both and both in-line produce the most natural sound. My poor ears are delighted.

I forgot to mention that I also cascade the CLRdsp with my 7300 under certain conditions. Usually with the 7300 DNR at #2 or 3...minimal but effective. It seems to cut down the WMR's adaptive time frame (woosh) noise reduction going from transmit to receive.
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KX2T

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Re: IC-7300 vs Yaesu FTDX10
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2022, 06:01:02 AM »

On the newer Icom SDR rigs the DNR acts just like a treble control on audio gear, its subtracts the higher frequencies in the audio spectrum and it kind of works but when you really wanna subtract the noise you have to turn up the control allot and it has that same effect as far as giving you that hollow sound.
In the FTDX10 its subtracts allot more noise and yes there is some of that hollow sound but turning on the contour control and peaking it between 1Khz to about 1.3Khz will give a nice recovery of the original signal less the noise which since I have owned both I do prefer the Yaesu which is closer to the NR on the Anan which seems to be the overall rated best NR.
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K7JQ

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Re: IC-7300 vs Yaesu FTDX10
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2022, 07:50:51 AM »

On the newer Icom SDR rigs the DNR acts just like a treble control on audio gear, its subtracts the higher frequencies in the audio spectrum and it kind of works but when you really wanna subtract the noise you have to turn up the control allot and it has that same effect as far as giving you that hollow sound.
In the FTDX10 its subtracts allot more noise and yes there is some of that hollow sound but turning on the contour control and peaking it between 1Khz to about 1.3Khz will give a nice recovery of the original signal less the noise which since I have owned both I do prefer the Yaesu which is closer to the NR on the Anan which seems to be the overall rated best NR.

I guess you can compare the DNR to kind of a treble control, but while the DNR algorithm (in the 7300...I have no experience with the FTDX-10) removes the higher frequency band noise "hisss", it makes SSB audio more muffled by also cutting down the higher frequencies of the speech, making it less intelligible as you increase the level control. It also reduces the AF gain, so you have to increase it to better copy the signal. The WMR CLRdsp removes the band noise, but not the audio frequency spectrum (nor volume) of the SSB speech, even if you turn up the unit's level control towards the maximum. And no "underwater/chirpy birds" artifacts. A CW signal is also unaffected, but the band noise is removed. Overall, more comfortable, less irritating listening.

These observations are according to my ears...you have to use the WMR CLRdsp to form your own opinion. Some reviewers here on eham.net didn't like it, and saw no advantage.

Bob K7JQ
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KX2T

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Re: IC-7300 vs Yaesu FTDX10
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2022, 07:02:10 AM »

Bob, have never used the outboard boxes for noise reduction other then the MFJ noise canceling devise which is an RF type unit that needs a noise external antenna.
The Icom 7300 and 7610 use the same type of circuit and you should go into the menu to boost the treble response at +5 otherwise it will dull the SSB audio quality by allot. In the FTDX10 there are different levels as well but the noise is knocked way down but using the contour control to peak within the voice range plus bring up the mid range and treble controls makes for better copy. I have owned both and the one in the FTDX10 and the FTDX101D/MP IMO works more like the one in the Anan rigs from what I have heard from audio recordings done on the Anan and sent to me via e mails from Anan owners.
Another point on the Icom radio's is the band pass filtering on the 7300 and 7610 is not very sharp compared to the Yaesu FTDX10&101 series. The Icom's make a better SWL radio were the Yaesu's cause the cut off points in the band pass filtering can be seen buy just going above most of the lower ham bands were the Yaesu's have a sharp cut off point compared to the Icom's in the sensitivity outside of the ham bands. You have to make a choice were you want the better performance either in the ham bands or all threw the HF spectrum were the Yaesu excels within the ham bands over the Icom's. This also would come into play during contest like Field Day were the sharper band pass filtering will make more differences between the two. I am not saying that one radio is bad just that for ham band use the Yaesu is the better design were only SDR radio's like the Flex 6600/6700 or Anan 7000DLE have better band pass filtering.
The Icom is a plug n play and with the Yaesu maybe a little RTFM may be in order unless you have owned some of the past Yaseu rigs like the 1000MP's,1200,3000,5000 which have like menu systems but IMO the Yaesu rigs have come a long way from the Cryptic style in the old 1000MP's.
The 3D display to me was a waste of time but maybe on the higher bands it might show QSB fading to some point but on the low bands it sucks were there is way to much noise and static to me useful plus the display on the spectrum side is real time so coming from an Icom it takes some getting used to but like many owners of both radio's they have installed an sdrplay with there station computer to do a nicer Flex like spectrum/waterfall display which blows away everything else I have used for displaying band activity. Your mileage may vary. 
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K7LZR

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Re: IC-7300 vs Yaesu FTDX10
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2022, 08:53:19 AM »

Every Yaesu radio which I've owned has had some annoying quirks. For instance, the FT-891 cannot switch between USB and LSB via the mode menu. Why? And the FT-991A has an idiotic process for selecting & using memory channels. Why? Before you make your decision, go and read the FTDX10 review by N9AMI on this page, scroll down to get to it:

https://www.eham.net/reviews/view-product?id=14869


Personally, I decided to stay away from Yaesu radios because of the bad ergonomics and design issues. I'd go with the Icom if I were you.

EDIT: Better yet, if you can live without a spectrum display, find an old Icom IC-745 or a good vintage Kenwood and be happier.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2022, 08:58:31 AM by K7LZR »
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K7JQ

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Re: IC-7300 vs Yaesu FTDX10
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2022, 09:04:36 AM »

Jim KX2T,

Having never used a FTDX-10 (nor any Yaesu radio in my 63 years as a ham), I can't render any opinion on it. Maybe I'm a "minimalist", but IMO, I think sometimes these newer radios go a little overboard with features and fine adjustments that put them in a realm of diminishing returns. They just provoke you into constant fiddling with knobs, buttons, and menus in order to try to achieve receive/transmit nirvana ;). In the long run, they really won't get you many, if any, more QSO's.

I'm not into ESSB, so any more EQ (RX and TX) than base and treble control is just fluff. As a contester, the less I have to touch the radio controls, the better. Basically, adjust the filter selectivity according to how crowded the band is in order to reject close-in signals, and run with it. For me, the IC-7300 does a great job filtering, going as low as 50 Hz if needed. As pretty as Flex is with the detail and resolution on their panadapters, in a major contest they're just as much a mess of peaks and valleys as a 7300. Really only good enough to spot rogue stations at band edges and finding holes to call CQ.

Mitigating band noise floor is a major factor in your ability to comfortably receive signals. As good as the NR algorithms in the newer radios are, I find my experience with the WMR CLRdsp outboard NR unit as very positive, especially cascaded with lower levels of the 7300's NR.

But what works for one doesn't work for another. Try them out, and go with what is best for your needs.

Bob K7JQ

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KX2T

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Re: IC-7300 vs Yaesu FTDX10
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2022, 08:07:11 AM »

Bob, I have owned the two latest Icom's, the 7300 and the 7610 plus have owned the FTDX10 when it first came out which replaced a 7300 which was backup for the 7610. Had those two side by side for nine months and sold the 7610 cause the Ten was that much better. Here on the east coast of the USA we have more problems with overload then you may have out west of in even the mid west of the USA so a better front end that doesn't overload during contest time or a really jam packed weekend make allot of difference.
I know have sold the Ten and have a 101D, its a little more refined plus has the VRF but the Ten was about 95% of the performance of the 101D its just the two RX sections cost in the 101D.
I have not been a ham for 63 years like yourself but over 50 years plus have built and owned a small but effective contest QTH on Long Island NY for over 10 years, two crank ups in the burbs on a 1/3 acre parcel that competed with the big boys, never with my call cause I didn't want all those QSL cards but did it with a core group of buddies and had a blast. I think between operating, building and designing a station that had taken 1st place USA almost three years in a row Multi Single in the the CQWWSSB contest had teach me something as well. That qth was not out west or in Colorado it was surrounded by big stations and big signals and even were we live today in Florida there is like problems from big signals as well so I have seen both the 7300 and the 7610 get crushed during a CQ or Arrl DX contest weekend but so far the Yaesu's have not.
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K7JQ

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Re: IC-7300 vs Yaesu FTDX10
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2022, 05:00:58 PM »

Yup, out here in the propagation black hole of Arizona, my 7300’s haven’t seen the “OVF” overload light illuminate. Not even from a couple of hams in my HOA subdivision, but they run 100W. I don’t need crush-proof front ends ;).
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G8FXC

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Re: IC-7300 vs Yaesu FTDX10
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2022, 03:35:06 AM »

...

If lightning struck the 7300 this afternoon, I am less clear about what would replace it. The FTDX10 architecture is better and performance is excellent for the price point. Yaesu ergonomics continue to be horrible, but I operate all my radios from the shack PC rather than their front panels, so I am seldom exposed to the ergonomics of the front panel. I do suspect that the replacement would be the FTDX10. That said, it is not sufficiently better than the 7300 that I would consider swapping a working 7300 for one...

Martin (G8FXC)

Well, no lightning strike here, but my accountant did strike instead - telling me to "go out and spend some money...", so despite my earlier comments, I have upgraded the 7300. I went along to our local main dealer and spent a couple of hours comparing the FTdx101D with the IC-7610 side-by-side on the same antennae - and eventually handed over my credit card plus the 7300 to come away with the FTdx101D - and it is wonderful!

The ergonomics are still horrible, but Win4Yaesu fixes that - and the receiver is amazing. Running on the same antrnna as the IC-7300, the noise floor is no lower, but the enhanced filtering and noise reduction work together to extract readable signals far better. Where the biggest difference comes is in the antenna management. The 101D has excellent antenna switching and makes it very easy to install a dedicated RX-only antenna. I've put a small, non-resonant RX loop on the back fence, far away from noise sources and put a Cross Country Wireless LAA++ preamp at the feedpoint, powered via a Bias-T injector down the coax. The result is incredible - signal strengths comparable with my doublet which is now TX-only, but a noise floor which is 4 S-points or more down on the doublet. Coupled with the improved filtering and noise reduction, I'm working stations that I would not have been able to hear before!

Martin (G8FXC)
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K7JQ

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Re: IC-7300 vs Yaesu FTDX10
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2022, 07:21:29 AM »


Running on the same antrnna as the IC-7300, the noise floor is no lower, but the enhanced filtering and noise reduction work together to extract readable signals far better.

Martin (G8FXC)

Congrats on the new radio…enjoy it! A question:

If the noise floor on the 101D is no lower than the 7300, then if you A/B the two radios on the same antenna, set both filters at, say, 500 Hz for CW, and both NR’s off, can you definitively say that you can hear and copy signals on the 101D that you can’t also hear and copy on the 7300?

Bob K7JQ
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KX2T

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Re: IC-7300 vs Yaesu FTDX10
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2022, 12:58:37 PM »

Coming from a 7300 the Yaesu takes some brain rewiring to get use to cause every rig these days has there own bag of trick. Congrats and three cheers to your accountant!
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WO7R

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Re: IC-7300 vs Yaesu FTDX10
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2022, 10:46:24 AM »

Quote
The ergonomics are still horrible, but Win4Yaesu fixes that

This sort of thing needs to be discussed more often in rig comparisons.

I have deployed K3s and KX3s and they are OK.  Great receivers, mediocre interface.  But, front end them with Win4K3 and they are much better to work with.  Ham radio menu structures are pretty uniformly terrible.  Running modern rigs off of a Win4xxx GUI erases a lot of those headaches and differences.
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G8FXC

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Re: IC-7300 vs Yaesu FTDX10
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2022, 06:02:39 AM »

Quote
The ergonomics are still horrible, but Win4Yaesu fixes that

This sort of thing needs to be discussed more often in rig comparisons.

I have deployed K3s and KX3s and they are OK.  Great receivers, mediocre interface.  But, front end them with Win4K3 and they are much better to work with.  Ham radio menu structures are pretty uniformly terrible.  Running modern rigs off of a Win4xxx GUI erases a lot of those headaches and differences.

Agreed! I seldom touch the front panel of any of my radios - they are operated through the shack PC. I was a Ham Radio Deluxe user for many years, but have now switched to Win4Yaesu which I find to be more user friendy. I used to write macros to cover the more complex configuration changes that I commonly make, but these days I've written a small "Helper Application" in C# which issues CAT commands to the radio via one of Win4Yaesu's virtual ports.

The other shortcoming in most rig comparisons - and in the performance analyses done by specialists like Rob Sherwood - is the lack of evaluation of noise reduction functionality. A large proportion of us these days are urban hams who have to find ways to operate despite noise floors that can often touch S9 on 80 and 40. I need all the tools available to cut through that noise - and the FTdx101D is currently the best option on the market for me.

Martin (G8FXC)
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