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Author Topic: check your state's legislative history  (Read 1766 times)

KF4WDD

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check your state's legislative history
« on: January 12, 2022, 01:11:21 PM »

You might be pleasantly surprised! In live in Virginia and someone just shared this with me. Apparently, VA amended the law in 1998 to 'reasonably accommodate amateur radio antennas.' This will be helpful as I explain to my HOA that their rules prohibiting all antennas except TV antennas need to be updated.

An Act to amend the Code of Virginia by adding a section numbered 15.2-2293.1, relating to placement of amateur radio antennas. [S 480]
Approved April 16, 1998
Be it enacted by the General Assembly of Virginia:

1. That the Code of Virginia is amended by adding a section numbered 15.2-2293.1 as follows:

§ 15.2-2293.1. Placement of amateur radio antennas.

Any ordinance involving the placement, screening or height of antennas shall reasonably accommodate amateur radio antennas and shall impose the minimum regulation necessary to accomplish the locality's legitimate purpose. In localities having a population density of 120 persons or less per square mile according to the 1990 United States census, no local ordinance shall (i) restrict amateur radio antenna height to less than 200 feet above ground level as permitted by the Federal Communications Commission or (ii) restrict the number of support structures. In localities having a population density of more than 120 persons per square mile according to the 1990 United States census, no local ordinance shall (i) restrict amateur radio antenna height to less than 75 feet above ground level or (ii) restrict the number of support structures. Reasonable and customary engineering practices shall be followed in the erection of amateur radio antennas. This section shall not preclude any locality, by ordinance, from regulating amateur radio antennas with regard to reasonable requirements relating to the use of screening, setback, placement, and health and safety requirements.
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N6MST

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2022, 01:13:30 PM »

I doubt HOA rules are considered ordinances. My guess is this state law does nothing to negate rules HOA-livers agreed to abide by.
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K6SDW

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2022, 03:34:29 PM »

I'm not a lawyer, HOA's are civil contracts between the home owner and the HOA......not the government. I dealt with an HOA in the 1980's and never again!!! The HOA was into everybody's business, not just Ham Radio like we couldn't park our cars on our driveway over night, I could not ride my motorcycle to my house, it had to be parked in the storage yard and if you had a legal beef with them and lost, the home owner was on the hook for all legal fees.

Just my opinion.

GL/73
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K7JQ

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2022, 03:49:31 PM »

I doubt HOA rules are considered ordinances. My guess is this state law does nothing to negate rules HOA-livers agreed to abide by.

I agree. That VA amendment is probably just about PRB-1, governing state and local municipality ham radio antenna accommodations. Nothing to do with CC&R private contracts.
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WA9AFM

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2022, 04:42:39 PM »

I'm not a lawyer, HOA's are civil contracts between the home owner and the HOA......not the government. I dealt with an HOA in the 1980's and never again!!! The HOA was into everybody's business, not just Ham Radio like we couldn't park our cars on our driveway over night, I could not ride my motorcycle to my house, it had to be parked in the storage yard and if you had a legal beef with them and lost, the home owner was on the hook for all legal fees.

Just my opinion.

GL/73

Correct.  The VA law does not override HOA covenants.  Also, most attorneys do not consider Covenants, Conditions & Restrictions (CC&R) a 'contract' as the terms were not negotiated, they are imposed.  For a document to be considered a contract, all parties must negotiate on a level plain and agree to all terms.
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K1VSK

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2022, 06:31:06 PM »



Correct.  The VA law does not override HOA covenants.  Also, most attorneys do not consider Covenants, Conditions & Restrictions (CC&R) a 'contract' as the terms were not negotiated, they are imposed.  For a document to be considered a contract, all parties must negotiate on a level plain and agree to all terms.

While the CC&Rs in itself are not contractual, anyone purchasing a home in an HOA is typically required as a prerequisite to purchase to sign an agreement to abide by the rules which is the contractual commitment. Some people conflate the two.

And the previous posters are correct in stating the VA statutory cite doesn’t apply to communities with CC&Rs. In this respect, hams are arguably better off living in an HOA where they have a better chance of obtaining a variance when compared with finding a flexible governmental entity.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2022, 06:36:18 PM by K1VSK »
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W9FIB

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2022, 09:14:56 AM »

Yep, the minute you sign the contract for the rules, you give up any legal remedy unless the HOA breaks the contract. And you accept any means that the HOA uses to enforce the rules.

Best you can do is to negotiate a way to be legal in the rules you signed up to follow.
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73, Stan
Travelling the world one signal at a time.

KH6AQ

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2022, 09:37:44 AM »

State Statutes, ARRL    http://www.arrl.org/state-prb-1-laws

Click on the link at the page for details on 32 states with enhanced laws.

"Several states have strengthened the minimal protection provided by PRB-1, giving amateurs more protection in erecting antennas on thier properties."

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KA4GFY

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2022, 10:28:19 AM »

I also live in Virginia and remember this.  The Botetourt County Board of Supervisors enacted a law saying no antenna could be more than 20 feet off the ground, or something like that.  It pretty much shut down hams, CB, GMRS and even a TV antenna on a chimney.  I suspect this happened because part of Botetourt was becoming very suburban as the Roanoke area was expanding and people probably didn't want those "ugly" towers cluttering their neighborhoods.

Some hams from the Roanoke area contacted their delegates and state senators who managed to enact a law based on PRB-1 requiring municipalities to provide reasonable accommodations for antennas.  Basically, the Botetourt County law became invalid overnight.

Like others have said, this has nothing to do with HOAs. 

73,
Rich, KA4GFY   
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W1MOW

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2022, 05:45:49 AM »

My wife who is a lawyer (And is, or was, not sure of her current status, a member of the Va. Bar, as well as VT & N.H.) states that no H.O.A. rules or C.C.R.'s may claim to override any federal, state, county, or local laws/ordinances.

While we both were stationed in Washington D.C., we lived in a H.O.A. community, in Va., where she successfully fought and changed at least 3 H.O.A.'s rules that violated state/local ordinances.

Contracts or agreements can not be written which violate any laws/ordinances.

Gary W1MOW
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The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt - Bertram Russell (1935)

So not much has changed in almost 90 years!

K1VSK

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2022, 06:40:31 AM »

My wife who is a lawyer (And is, or was, not sure of her current status, a member of the Va. Bar, as well as VT & N.H.) states that no H.O.A. rules or C.C.R.'s may claim to override any federal, state, county, or local laws/ordinances.

While we both were stationed in Washington D.C., we lived in a H.O.A. community, in Va., where she successfully fought and changed at least 3 H.O.A.'s rules that violated state/local ordinances.

Contracts or agreements can not be written which violate any laws/ordinances.

Gary W1MOW
I’d be interested in knowing the details, I.e., in what court venue she brought this, what were the issues, what  rules were overturned, etc…


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K7JQ

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2022, 06:54:09 AM »

My wife who is a lawyer (And is, or was, not sure of her current status, a member of the Va. Bar, as well as VT & N.H.) states that no H.O.A. rules or C.C.R.'s may claim to override any federal, state, county, or local laws/ordinances.

While we both were stationed in Washington D.C., we lived in a H.O.A. community, in Va., where she successfully fought and changed at least 3 H.O.A.'s rules that violated state/local ordinances.

Contracts or agreements can not be written which violate any laws/ordinances.

Gary W1MOW

So, let me get this straight. Are you in effect saying that community CC&R ham radio antenna restrictions cannot override/violate Federal law PRB-1?

If so, why hasn’t the ARRL, with its various legislative efforts in the past, jumped on this? Or no individual ham represented by an attorney used this argument to gain antenna approval?

I’m no lawyer, like your wife, but something here doesn’t compute. Why would such a CC&R be written, knowing that it can’t be legally enforced?
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W9IQ

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2022, 07:26:01 AM »

So, let me get this straight. Are you in effect saying that community CC&R ham radio antenna restrictions cannot override/violate Federal law PRB-1?

PRB-1 is not a federal law - it was never codified. It is a notice from the FCC asserting federal premption against unreasonably restrictive laws, permitting or practices with regard to amateur radio antennas. A big stick, if you will.

So while it is not a law, if it is violated/infringed, you have recourse for redress.

- Glenn W9IQ
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 07:42:22 AM by W9IQ »
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- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.

K1VSK

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2022, 08:15:03 AM »



PRB-1 is not a federal law - it was never codified. It is a notice from the FCC asserting federal premption against unreasonably restrictive laws, permitting or practices with regard to amateur radio antennas. A big stick, if you will.

So while it is not a law, if it is violated/infringed, you have recourse for redress.

- Glenn W9IQ
PRB 1 does not apply to or supercede HOA CC&Rs.

Absent any details from W1MOW, i suspect this is largely a simple misstatement of the circumstances.
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W9IQ

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2022, 09:35:57 AM »



PRB-1 is not a federal law - it was never codified. It is a notice from the FCC asserting federal premption against unreasonably restrictive laws, permitting or practices with regard to amateur radio antennas. A big stick, if you will.

So while it is not a law, if it is violated/infringed, you have recourse for redress.

- Glenn W9IQ
PRB 1 does not apply to or supercede HOA CC&Rs.

Very true. The FCC clearly carved out CC&R/HOA with their language:

We reiterate that our ruling herein does not reach restrictive covenants in private contractual agreements. Such agreements are voluntarily entered into by the buyer or tenant when the agreement is executed and do not usually concern this Commission.

- Glenn W9IQ
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- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.
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