Hi Bill. I hear your anger and frustration.
So I'm changing hats here for a bit, and am now wearing the FANCY hat of self appointed Moral Sheriff: And it's high time to CLEAR THE DIRTY AIR IN THIS POLECAT FORUM TOWN OF ALL OF THE HOA LAPDOG STANK!!!
Well, OK. But what's YOUR beef, since you don't live in an HOA community but out in the backwoods of Ohio (been there myself and love it) in a single family home surrounded by - not much. Plenty of room to put up whatever you want. That's really a sweet deal - not much to complain about, HOA-wise.
You CAN Cowtow to the HOA Man...
You mean, pretty much to us, ourselves, hams that is, because we've already established earlier or in another thread, I forget, that hams generally don't WANT other hams next door. It's been pointed out to me, when I asked about hams starting their own HOA, that an HOA packed with hams would be a nightmare for all operators. Field day on steroids, 24/7, 365 days a year, in most HOAs where units are very close together.
OR:You can work towards REMOViNG THEIR POWER by getting the law CHANGED to ELIMINATE the HOA strangulation of our avocation, and MANY MORE of your harmless pursuits of happiness, not to mention freedom of expression and free speech rights.
Well, as you pointed out (see "avocation") Amateur Radio is a hobby, not a livelihood, so nobody's welfare is being threatened and there's room for compromise, as any ham with an XYL knows. Not sure what HOAs have to do with free speech. HOAs are about common property rights agreements between the individuals in the HOA, not free speech. It seems like you're confusing the two. One is not the other.
Some people are under the VERY mistaken impression that these things can't be changed, and OTHER people are pretending otherwise who know better, but in these here United States: They CAN be changed, and change happens every day.
Sure thing. Vote the right way and put enough pressure on lawmakers and the people can change a lot, and do every day. But only about bout 12% of the U.S. population lives in an HOA in the USA, out of the 65% that owns homes. The other 53% of homeowners don't have a vested interest in this and the 35% that rent or are homeless probably don't care, either. (easy to look up) So it will take some real special interest campaigning to change things. The ARRL has tried hard to do this nationally without huge success. Maybe we need to try harder locally - but also need to avoid shooting ourselves in the foot by being threatening. Action and reaction is not just a law of physics.
HOA's relative and very arbitrary dictatorships are eroding: They USED to be able to tell you that you couldn't have a clothesline or put up solar panels, or have a flag. As of late, they can't disallow a flag, but it MUST be a US flag! No State flag. No joint display of say a US and a Canadian flag. No Blue Line flag. No POW flag. No Pride Flag. So how long are HOAs going to be able to limit your freedom of speech and expression when any other said flag can be displayed on that very same flagpole until people say enough is enough?
Yep. HOAs can be real frustrating. They're largely run by people very much like the average citizen who has no experience whatsoever in civics, leadership, engineering or finance. And partly because of that, bad things can happen, like the Florida Surfside Condo collapse from what appears to be lack of maintenance, IMO.
Some (but not all) of the HOA Lapdogs that reside here have pretended otherwise about change.
The first step in taking away someone's rights and dignity is to brand them with a nasty label. Abuse soon follows. Is that REALLY your intent? If not, maybe we should avoid labels and name calling.
But the last time around, the single vote of a Silly Sunshine State Senator (who has since been sent packing by VOTERS) was what it took for HOA Tyranny to barely hold on to their power. And that was the last time. But there WILL be a Next Time, and sooner or later, the HOA chickens ARE going to come home to roost: They know that they are hanging by a thread, and just ONE ruling not in their favour will ELIMINATE a LOT of their really mean spirited pettiness!
OK. Well... Good luck with that. But first you should probably get your logic straight to present in a reasonable, non-threatening way, so you can debate the issues with the people who count - the HOA owners, lawmakers, etc. The anger part is loud and clear as are the threats, and threats and anger usually shuts down the whole process.
Don't put up with HOA Crap. HOA Lapdogs are wanting to have it their way, because they have always had privilege and money to keep the status quo in their favour.
I'm confused. If only wealthy people live in HOAs (I thought they liked mansions), and you don't live in an HOA (you have a stand-alone home- much better - a mansion in comparison), and hams don't really want to operate next to each other anyway, who's hurting? Other people who WANT to be in an HOA (which is pretty much voluntary)? I mean, gee, what if you rent and live in an apartment? Isn't it worse? At least in an HOA you have full control of what's INSIDE the home. Seems like it's the rich people who are complaining about other rich people. Amateur radio's NOT an inexpensive hobby, either.
But the New Kids are NOT going to be saying "uncle" to arbitrary HOA lockstep authority, and that's a GOOD THING!
I'm not sure who those kids are - not mine (they live in apartments), but there are probably much more constructive things they could be doing and better causes to go after. This one really doesn't seem to have a huge payoff, life-wise.
Google HOA on YouTube and see the horror stories about HOAs. And witness? More and more People who are mad as hell, and they're NOT taking it from the HOA Anymore! What's more? More of them are WINNING their battles with HOAs that have been way, way, way, WAY out of control.
Its' funny. Whenever property is owned in common - a boat, a car, a home, etc., there are always disputes. Some pretty bitter. ESPECIALLY with relatives! The key to avoiding problems is to never get into that situation to begin with if you don't like the arrangement. Been there, done that. Lots of stories about co-owned boats on-line, too.
Finally, an HF antenna WILL work in an attic that's insulated with foil backed insulation:That's right, I said it! After all, I am just as "qualified" to be an "Antenna Expert" as I am a "Moral Sheriff", so there!
OK. That's good news. Because the HOA just chopped down the tree my wire antenna was tied to (CT QTH) because it was destroying the driveway (it really was) and I have to go up in the attic and see if I can manage with a new antenna up there. I like challenges and experimentation, even at my age. (I'm not a "new kid")
Too many people are discouraged even from experimenting with stealth antenna installations by "Antenna Experts" here. This general crushing of Spirits by antenna "experts" does not please THIS "Self Appointed Antenna Expert/Moral Sheriff" one iota.
Everybody is completely responsible for their own choices and actions and their consequences. That's the harsh reality of life, like it or not. If somebody runs away because of a few negative voices on a forum, that's up to them. Suppressing those forum opinions, negative or not, suppresses freedom of speech - and I thought you were in favor of freedom of speech. Anyone who is discouraged from putting up an antenna needs to actually do some real research and think for themselves - THEN make a decision. (I did and will continue with the attic antenna) Not doing that is giving up freedom. Taking responsibility for what you decide and do - What a refreshing thought! We need to stop posing as victims and blaming others- there's no benefit to mined on that account.
Don't let them tell you that if you don't live in an HOA that you can't have an opinion or work for change, because that's crap too.
Don't let them tell you that "well you signed it" so you can't change it, because you CAN.
It's a contract, like any other, and can be changed if there is a valid and equitable reason as decided by courts. That's fundamental to the "Rule of Law". And without laws, there is anarchy and survival of the meanest, not freedom.
Don't let them tell you that HOAs are for the most part cooperative with accommodating Hams, because THE FACTS don't bear that out, and I don't have to pull that data out of my shirt pocket, when they don't pull it out of theirs, either… Nice Try!
HOA responses vary as much as the people in them and most people respond to anger as a threat and close the door. There are better ways.
Make it BETTER. Make it so that an up and coming kid stuck in an HOA gets HIS chance at amateur radio because remember, HE didn't sign anything!
Soooo. This is about a teenager living at home in his or her parents HOA, without a job and still in school (hopefully). Well, the vast majority of those are either doing homework, out playing sports, hanging out with friends or playing video games or on social media sites. Very few will be pining away for amateur radio, especially HF operation. I wish there were more! And the few that are into amateur radio like VHF/UHF better than HF, and VHF/UHF works just fine from any home. The antennas are tiny, even the fixed station ones. How do I know? I'm a Dad, with kids. VHF handi-talkies were fun and so were repeaters and digital systems. HF SSB rag-chewing and CW they laughed at. So - how fast can YOU send and copy CW?
Finally: IN SPITE of HOAs, there WILL be backyard dog boxes, children will play in yards that occasionally sport crabgrass instead of being deadly chemical wastelands of boring golf turf conformity. Backyard grills will sizzle, and the sound of popping Pabst beer cans opening while listening to Ray Charles songs will be heard, and Individuality and Laughter will be celebrated. And QSOs will be exchanged by Free People in Towns and HOAs alike!
Well, that's what I enjoy just about every time I'm at my HOA, especially in the summer. Lots of fun talking in the back yard, with our dogs and around the pool (but I prefer Yuengling to Pabst - its America's oldest brewery and beer - a lager, and still tastier than the IPAs and imports, IMO). We do our own landscaping, BTW. It's not always the greatest - we're amateurs at it - but it's worthwhile for the social events. And NO, I've NEVER been on the board of directors. I get along with my neighbors, for the most part, even if we sometimes disagree and I get funny questions about my "hobby". Got lucky, I guess.
We now return you to the Regular HOA Lapdog Apologists at this time….
No Property Value was harmed in the making of this post.
73 DE W8LV BILL
Heh! Thank you, Bill. Very appreciated.
Have a good summer and stay cool (in all things).
Ohio is beautiful country and I miss going there. But my boy that used to live out there moved back to California, so I have no reason to visit anymore.
Brian - K6BRN