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Author Topic: check your state's legislative history  (Read 1760 times)

K7JQ

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #75 on: January 30, 2022, 06:31:44 AM »


Chew on this restriction and see if it will prevent Radio Operation:

(f) The installation, maintenance or operation of any electric equipment which causes television or radio station's interference is prohibited.

      Source-Lafourche Parish Records Blue Point Subdivision.

My two cents:
Absent a specific “antenna restriction”, I would imagine that an antenna would be considered part of interference-causing (ham radio) “electric equipment”. But what if you can prove that your radio *doesn’t* cause interference? Can you then keep your antenna? Vague.

On another note, it doesn’t state interference to a *commercial* television or radio station. What about interference to YOUR ham “radio station”? Can that include your neighbor’s solar panels, grow lights, electric fences, etc, causing interference to your receiver?

IMO, a very poorly written, vague CC&R. Let a judge deal with that ;).


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K1VSK

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #76 on: January 30, 2022, 06:57:42 AM »

Chew on this restriction and see if it will prevent Radio Operation:

(f) The installation, maintenance or operation of any electric equipment which causes television or radio station's interference is prohibited.

what does Judge Don say?       Source-Lafourche Parish Records Blue Point Subdivision.

An antenna isn’t generally categorized as “electrical equipment” so I guess my first question is - what’s your point?

Also, absent the entire statute, it’s impossible to know if the intent is limited to equipment within a domicile or limited to exterior “equipment” or all “equipment” but again, not specific to antennas.

Any other games you want to play?
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N5PZJ

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #77 on: January 30, 2022, 07:59:26 PM »

Chew on this restriction and see if it will prevent Radio Operation:

(f) The installation, maintenance or operation of any electric equipment which causes television or radio station's interference is prohibited.

what does Judge Don say?       Source-Lafourche Parish Records Blue Point Subdivision.

An antenna isn’t generally categorized as “electrical equipment” so I guess my first question is - what’s your point?

Also, absent the entire statute, it’s impossible to know if the intent is limited to equipment within a domicile or limited to exterior “equipment” or all “equipment” but again, not specific to antennas.

Any other games you want to play?

It is the whole restriction, and the Louisiana Judge said RFI is an FCC item and ultra vires to the court.
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K7JQ

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #78 on: January 31, 2022, 05:23:28 AM »


Chew on this restriction and see if it will prevent Radio Operation:

(f) The installation, maintenance or operation of any electric equipment which causes television or radio station's interference is prohibited.

     Source-Lafourche Parish Records Blue Point Subdivision.


It is the whole restriction, and the Louisiana Judge said RFI is an FCC item and ultra vires to the court.

The restriction is so vague and non-specific that that even the Judge is baffled, and doesn’t want to deal with it. So he’s passing the buck to the FCC.
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K1VSK

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #79 on: January 31, 2022, 06:02:06 AM »


It is the whole restriction, and the Louisiana Judge said RFI is an FCC item and ultra vires to the court.
Again, without reading the entire Bill, it’s unwise to take this one sentence out of context. Virtually every legislation contains a definition section omitted here. We don’t see that here. Having said that, it appears whomever wrote that is stating the obvious - it’s no epiphany that the FCC has primacy in cases involving RFI. Didn’t you know that?

If your trying to argue that HOAs don’t have the authority to regulate RFI or base transmitter restrictions on RFI interference, I don’t think that’s a surprise to anyone. I also don’t recall anyone ever implying they do.

So what’s your point?
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K3LI

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #80 on: February 13, 2022, 07:42:58 AM »

HOA rules may NOT contradict Federal, State, or local laws.   Many property HOAs have restrictions and covenants that violate Federal Law, State law, State Property codes etc.   

A contract can not have conditions that violate one of the above, period.

That's my business.  I have busted up many HOA CC&Rs this way.   Check the last time your CC&Rs were updated.  If not in the last 5 years, I guarantee they are not compliant.
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K7JQ

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #81 on: February 13, 2022, 05:35:36 PM »

HOA rules may NOT contradict Federal, State, or local laws.   Many property HOAs have restrictions and covenants that violate Federal Law, State law, State Property codes etc.   

A contract can not have conditions that violate one of the above, period.

That's my business.  I have busted up many HOA CC&Rs this way.   Check the last time your CC&Rs were updated.  If not in the last 5 years, I guarantee they are not compliant.

There are no Federal, State, or local laws that would override private land use CC&R’s that restrict ham radio antennas. That’s what folks that read this forum are concerned about.
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K1VSK

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #82 on: February 13, 2022, 05:47:19 PM »

And “updating CC&Rs” is impracticable if not impossible in most cases. If there were any Federal statutes which contravene a covenant, the former inherently takes precedence and supersedes it obviating any need to “update” or “bust”them (whatever that means). 
« Last Edit: February 13, 2022, 05:49:52 PM by K1VSK »
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K7JQ

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #83 on: February 14, 2022, 06:15:04 AM »

People are always, incorrectly, posting on this forum various ways that CC&R ham radio antenna restrictions are somehow mis-worded, illegal, void, outdated, or violate other laws or Constitutional rights that would render them ineffective. The plain fact is that they are fully enforceable under any law, and any attempt to fight them is futile. Read the CC&R’s before purchasing a property.

If you’re under such restrictions, you basically have three choices:
1. Fully comply and give up operating ham radio from home (except remotely).
2. Ask permission from the HOA for a variance to erect an antenna.
3. Find innovative ways to hide an antenna from the eyes of neighbors and the 
    HOA (at your own risk).
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K1VSK

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #84 on: February 14, 2022, 08:19:45 AM »

I’m not sure how any of this is helpful:
HOA rules may NOT contradict Federal, State,…

A contract can not have conditions that violate one of the above, period.

That's my business.  I have busted up many HOA CC&Rs this way.   Check the last time your CC&Rs were updated.  If not in the last 5 years, I guarantee they are not compliant.

What do you mean by “that’s my business”?

Can you cite examples of both what and how you have “busted” covenants?
In what way is “this way”?
Do you realize CC&Rs aren’t “updated”?
In what way does a 5year duration affect compliance?

And most fundamental to the above, how does any of your post relate to antenna limitations?
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W1MOW

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #85 on: February 14, 2022, 08:40:46 AM »

PURE AND SIMPLE...NO CONTRACT IS ENFORCEABLE IF IT VIOLATES ANY FEDERAL, STATE, LOCAL LAWS!

I don't know how many times it must be said for you guy's to understand. It does not matter if it's a H.O.A. or C.C.R, if it violates any law or oridence, it's not enforceable. If part of any contract is found to be based on an old law, or that law has been updated, since it now violates a law, that part is no longer enforceable.

Your constant and relentless support of H.O.A.'s, makes the former LEO in me wonder...Is the "National Home Owner's Association" paying you?

Let me know when you guy's pass the bar!

It's time for this thread to be locked, it has long ago run it's course!

Gary W1MOW
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The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt - Bertram Russell (1935)

So not much has changed in almost 90 years!

K1VSK

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  • Posts: 1947
Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #86 on: February 14, 2022, 09:34:18 AM »

PURE AND SIMPLE...NO CONTRACT IS ENFORCEABLE IF IT VIOLATES ANY FEDERAL, STATE, LOCAL LAWS!

I don't know how many times it must be said for you guy's to understand. It does not matter if it's a H.O.A. or C.C.R, if it violates any law or oridence, it's not enforceable. If part of any contract is found to be based on an old law, or that law has been updated, since it now violates a law, that part is no longer enforceable.

Your constant and relentless support of H.O.A.'s, makes the former LEO in me wonder...Is the "National Home Owner's Association" paying you?

Let me know when you guy's pass the bar!

It's time for this thread to be locked, it has long ago run it's course!

Gary W1MOW

We know. No one disputes that. We have repeatedly acknowledged that. What makes you think anyone doesn’t know that? Where did anyone dispute that?

All of which is still irrelevant when dealing withHOA CC&R antenna limitations.

I am a member of both the multi-state and Federal Bar. Not an indicator of any double-secret expertise. I know many lawyers who are intellectually challenged - most went into politics and ironically now make the laws and regs we debate here

Did short sentences help?

« Last Edit: February 14, 2022, 09:45:59 AM by K1VSK »
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K7JQ

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #87 on: February 14, 2022, 09:40:41 AM »

PURE AND SIMPLE...NO CONTRACT IS ENFORCEABLE IF IT VIOLATES ANY FEDERAL, STATE, LOCAL LAWS!

I don't know how many times it must be said for you guy's to understand. It does not matter if it's a H.O.A. or C.C.R, if it violates any law or oridence, it's not enforceable. If part of any contract is found to be based on an old law, or that law has been updated, since it now violates a law, that part is no longer enforceable.

Your constant and relentless support of H.O.A.'s, makes the former LEO in me wonder...Is the "National Home Owner's Association" paying you?

Let me know when you guy's pass the bar!

It's time for this thread to be locked, it has long ago run it's course!

Gary W1MOW

Gary,

I'm not questioning your first paragraph. But CC&R ham radio antenna restrictions DO NOT violate any Federal, State, or local laws. And this CC&R is what hams that read this forum are concerned about. Other CC&R's?...who cares in relation to ham radio. You're in effect telling hams that they might have a shot to have the CC&R overridden because it violates other laws. Cite cases to prove me or Don wrong. I'm not an attorney, but I once played one on TV (not) ;D.

I don't "support" HOA's, and don't care where anyone lives. I'm just telling people that think there's loopholes around CC&R ham radio antenna restrictions, or falsely read something into them to justify moving into a community, that there isn't. Everyone has free choice to live wherever they want.

Bob K7JQ
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N9SXF

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #88 on: March 20, 2022, 06:36:16 AM »

Probably a word here should be written about intent.

From what i understand, when legislation is prepared it may not be intended to violate federal, state, local laws as applicable. Occasionally once it is enacted it falls to affected parties to demonstrate to the authority having jurisdiction that a law may have to be reconsidered or rewritten or occasionally struck down. (I.e. when the head of Zenith successfully struck down the precursor to the FCC on or about 1927-8-9. Um, don't hold me to this, its been a while since i read 200 meters down.)

My reading of this is that the unintended consequences of the assumptions the general public and legislators make(s) about radio, antennas, or otherwise reflects how far the hobby has to go to educate everyone else about what makes ham radio that we consider worth protecting- with legal protections in the case of antennas.

Paraphrasing from what i recall, two years ago one of the guys at the club had this battle with his town misunderstanding that ham radio was a private radio service. At the time I advised that he get a formal rejection from that town to appeal to a higher authority for the purpose of having the higher authority demonstrate the difference between private or subscription service (cellular, beeper, etc.) and ham radio. Both categories are governed and licensed by the FCC but that authority clearly had to be educated on the difference.

Back to intent, the Louisiana HOA proposed language noted previously may or may not presumably exempt an swl antenna or tv receiving antenna such as a satellite dish unless a rejection could be appealed with documentation satisfactory to the HOA that said receiving apparatus (including antennas) is not designed to interfere with existing services that were considered important to the HOA. (A plausible hypothetical may be that a community service requires line of sight to a national weather service transmitter or something that was perhaps not explicitly mentioned.) I don't know the circumstances of that HOA, but the framers of the HOA language presumably bear the responsibility to communicate this through the language of the restriction explicitly and or their rejection notice.

I agree with 'VSK, however i'd add that the work that resulted in that sample HOA language as presented or cited here makes the HOA that approved it appear intellectually challenged. Therefore in the context of EHam and QRZ, it may be as simple as reading the law to demonstrate the... intellectual gap a judge would have to fill for said HOA.

To further qualify this, I should explain that I am not an attorney nor do i play one on tv. (By trade i am an archimatect (sic).) However i do have a tv and that might count for something. But don't take my word for it... hi hi.

In a ham radio context, this family of concepts to me isn't too different than reducing harmonics, birdies, or circuit problems with regulation to address anomalies that get in our way and others.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2022, 06:53:28 AM by N9SXF »
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N9SXF

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #89 on: March 20, 2022, 06:42:27 AM »

One last word about intent in case i didn't otherwise say it. In the event the Louisiana language cited was prepared to make said HOA appear... intellectually challenged, this i think is a different but not unrelated topic.

Put another way, surely everyone here has at one point worked with ...that guy at the office. Hi hi.

If thats the case one might be wise to quote Jeremy Clarkson with the question, 'what were they thinking?'
« Last Edit: March 20, 2022, 06:57:02 AM by N9SXF »
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