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Author Topic: check your state's legislative history  (Read 1774 times)

K7JQ

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2022, 09:47:20 AM »

Apparently, W1MOW's wife's achievements pertained to other CC&R's in their VA community that violate actual "laws/ordinances", not antenna restrictions. It's stated clearly in PRB-1 (correctly per W9IQ not a "law", but a FCC "Memorandum Opinion and Order") that it doesn't apply to CC&R's.

In this ham radio forum, what other "law/ordinance" violation would he be referring to that applies to antenna restriction CC&R's? If none, why comment?
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K1VSK

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2022, 10:13:28 AM »

Apparently, W1MOW's wife's achievements pertained to other CC&R's in their VA community that violate actual "laws/ordinances", not antenna restrictions. It's stated clearly in PRB-1 (correctly per W9IQ not a "law", but a FCC "Memorandum Opinion and Order") that it doesn't apply to CC&R's.

In this ham radio forum, what other "law/ordinance" violation would he be referring to that applies to antenna restriction CC&R's? If none, why comment?

Some states have clothes line statutes, flag pole statutes, etc… which supersede local covenants ex post facto, however, the nexus to antennas is non-existent.
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N2SR

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2022, 12:53:14 PM »

My wife who is a lawyer (And is, or was, not sure of her current status, a member of the Va. Bar, as well as VT & N.H.) states that no H.O.A. rules or C.C.R.'s may claim to override any federal, state, county, or local laws/ordinances.

Gary W1MOW

Then explain the many of the horror stories where homeowners in HOAs are fined for not watering their lawns, even though there are drought restrictions in the state/county.



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N2SR

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2022, 12:57:23 PM »


In this respect, hams are arguably better off living in an HOA where they have a better chance of obtaining a variance when compared with finding a flexible governmental entity.

That is the biggest pile of crappola that I have read today and maybe all week. 

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K1VSK

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2022, 01:56:12 PM »


In this respect, hams are arguably better off living in an HOA where they have a better chance of obtaining a variance when compared with finding a flexible governmental entity.

That is the biggest pile of crappola that I have read today and maybe all week.

Apparently you don’t watch the news.
I could give you examples of over 200 variances granted in just one month by my HOA but I can’t make you understand how implausible that would be with any governmental bureaucracy.
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W1MOW

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2022, 08:17:16 AM »



PRB-1 is not a federal law - it was never codified. It is a notice from the FCC asserting federal premption against unreasonably restrictive laws, permitting or practices with regard to amateur radio antennas. A big stick, if you will.

So while it is not a law, if it is violated/infringed, you have recourse for redress.

- Glenn W9IQ
PRB 1 does not apply to or supercede HOA CC&Rs.

Absent any details from W1MOW, i suspect this is largely a simple misstatement of the circumstances.

All I stated was very simple, H.O.A.'s/C.C.R.'s, or for that matter any contract, can not be enforced if it violates any federal, state, or local law.

The rules she fought were about parking restrictions on state/local owned roads, and a "peeping Tom" rule that allowed H.O.A. rulers to use "selfie sticks" to check out peoples property behind and over fences. There is one other, at this time I don't remember. These never went to trial, their lawyer could not settle fast enough.

Sorry...We were away and I was not able to respond in what (K1VSK) you consider a timely fashion. BTW glad to see you commenting on other things other than your relentless defense of H.O.A.'s.

Gary W1MOW
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The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt - Bertram Russell (1935)

So not much has changed in almost 90 years!

K7JQ

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2022, 09:01:41 AM »


BTW (K1VSK) glad to see you commenting on other things other than your relentless defense of H.O.A.'s.

Gary W1MOW


Hey, Gary, what about *my* relentless defense of HOA's ;D ;D ;D?

As I've said before, aside from antenna restrictions (which I realized before purchase), I've never had a problem with any of the three HOA communities I lived in. "Peeping Toms" via selfie sticks...wow! I guess I've been fortunate not to have lived in any governed by crazies ;).

Bob K7JQ

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K1VSK

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2022, 09:38:32 AM »



All I stated was very simple, H.O.A.'s/C.C.R.'s, or for that matter any contract, can not be enforced if it violates any federal, state, or local law.

The rules she fought were about parking restrictions on state/local owned roads, and a "peeping Tom" rule that allowed H.O.A. rulers to use "selfie sticks" to check out peoples property behind and over fences. There is one other, at this time I don't remember. These never went to trial, their lawyer could not settle fast enough.

Sorry...We were away and I was not able to respond in what (K1VSK) you consider a timely fashion. BTW glad to see you commenting on other things other than your relentless defense of H.O.A.'s.

Gary W1MOW

Your characterization of my “relentless defense” is more often necessitated by the lack of understanding of the realities, this being a great example:


As it relates to the issue of antenna limitations, no court has the standing to usurp CC&Rs which don’t violate “the law”. And as there is no law which grants any right for antennas in HOAs, this is a moot point. Similarly, anyone who enters into a contract to abide by “legal” HOA rules and by extension CC&Rs, cannot subsequently seek relief.

As for parking rules on state/county/ municipal roadways, the HOA has no standing to impose restrictions there on. Consequently, there is nothing to “fight” once the HOA understands they cannot regulate public roads. They can, however, regulate HOA managed roads in which case you would lose that “fight”.
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N2SR

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2022, 12:11:56 PM »


In this respect, hams are arguably better off living in an HOA where they have a better chance of obtaining a variance when compared with finding a flexible governmental entity.

That is the biggest pile of crappola that I have read today and maybe all week.

Apparently you don’t watch the news.
I could give you examples of over 200 variances granted in just one month by my HOA but I can’t make you understand how implausible that would be with any governmental bureaucracy.

I don't watch the liberal media crap news.

I didn't know that the news specifically runs news stories on your HOA when they grant variances for towers.  Let us all know which news station does that. 

How many towers are in your HOA and how tall are they?   

That's with your HOA only.  Not the other 350,000+ HOAs in the entire USA. 

Meanwhile, my local township easily approved my tower permit and variance.   

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K1VSK

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2022, 07:00:19 PM »







I don't watch the liberal media crap news.

I didn't know that the news specifically runs news stories on your HOA when they grant variances for towers.  Let us all know which news station does that. 

How many towers are in your HOA and how tall are they?   

That's with your HOA only.  Not the other 350,000+ HOAs in the entire USA. 

Meanwhile, my local township easily approved my tower permit and variance.
If you want to discuss this intelligently, I’m all in but when you use absurd arguments, you already lost the debate.

I was clearly referring to the numerous variances just in one month granted by my HOA for a myriad things including antennas as an example of the flexibility (which you deny exists) when compared with any governmental entity.

When your argument consists solely of towers and what stories are reported by news media, you set a new and high bar for both “crappola” and nonsense.

« Last Edit: January 17, 2022, 07:03:11 PM by K1VSK »
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W1MOW

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2022, 09:04:28 AM »


I was clearly referring to the numerous variances just in one month granted by my HOA for a myriad things including antennas as an example of the flexibility (which you deny exists) when compared with any governmental entity.


Your relentless defense of H.O.A.'s would have more credence if you would admit your H.O.A. is unusual. Having lived in 4 H.O.A.'s while on active duty, and 1 condo association after retirement. I can tell you we only had 1 that vaguely resembles how lucky you are with your H.O.A. All the others had their own little dictators who felt they had the right to tell people how to live on their own property.

Glad that you found a good one!

BTW I meant it when I posted I was happy to see you posting about other things than H.O.A.'s

Gary W1MOW
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The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt - Bertram Russell (1935)

So not much has changed in almost 90 years!

K1VSK

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2022, 10:06:58 AM »


I was clearly referring to the numerous variances just in one month granted by my HOA for a myriad things including antennas as an example of the flexibility (which you deny exists) when compared with any governmental entity.


Your relentless defense of H.O.A.'s would have more credence if you would admit your H.O.A. is unusual. Having lived in 4 H.O.A.'s while on active duty, and 1 condo association after retirement. I can tell you we only had 1 that vaguely resembles how lucky you are with your H.O.A. All the others had their own little dictators who felt they had the right to tell people how to live on their own property.

Glad that you found a good one!

BTW I meant it when I posted I was happy to see you posting about other things than H.O.A.'s

Gary W1MOW

I don’t think either of us (or anyone else) knows how unusual my HOA is. What I do know is that condos are a separate breed because of the lack of private areas making them somewhat apart.

Also, neither of us can explain why we don’t hear lots of HOA resident hams complaining. There is clearly some but it appears many are also content with their situation(s) which in part can be a result of the flexibility of their HOA. We just don’t know so again, there is no basis on which to imply mine is unique.

As for the dictatorial nature of some, it’s somewhat baffling why residents allow that given these positions are elected and therefore easily removed/replaced. 
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K7JQ

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2022, 10:55:17 AM »


I don’t think either of us (or anyone else) knows how unusual my HOA is. What I do know is that condos are a separate breed because of the lack of private areas making them somewhat apart.

Also, neither of us can explain why we don’t hear lots of HOA resident hams complaining. There is clearly some but it appears many are also content with their situation(s) which in part can be a result of the flexibility of their HOA. We just don’t know so again, there is no basis on which to imply mine is unique.

As for the dictatorial nature of some, it’s somewhat baffling why residents allow that given these positions are elected and therefore easily removed/replaced.

What baffles me is that most (not all) of the anti-HOA folks on this forum have never lived in one. They automatically assume that just because there are some rules associated with living in a community, their God-given "rights" are taken away. That's fine, don't buy a house in one. But don't post an opinion on something that you have no experience with.

We're rather private people that don't really spend much time with our neighbors, so in the three HOA's we've lived in, I don't how many people have clashed with the HOA's. What I do know is that, like any responsible people, we take pride in the appearance of our property, respect the privacy of our neighbors, and don't consciously upset the apple cart with non-compliance of the CC&R's. Therefore, no problems with the HOA, and we enjoy where we live. I've never tested the "flexibility" of the rules (never asked for an antenna variance), but I still have stealth antennas that no one can see, no RFI problems, and am still able to enjoy our hobby without any repercussions. Depending on any crazy people on an HOA board, your mileage may vary ;).
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W9FIB

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2022, 05:03:25 AM »

Depending on any crazy people on an HOA board, your mileage may vary ;).

And that is the crux of the problem. Where 1 person has no problems, others do. So really neither side can be used as an overall example that would sum up all HOAs. So no direct comparison can be made other than your own situation. And to debate 2 situations as if they cover all is a worthless use of forum space.
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73, Stan
Travelling the world one signal at a time.

K1VSK

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2022, 05:50:10 AM »

Depending on any crazy people on an HOA board, your mileage may vary ;).

And that is the crux of the problem. Where 1 person has no problems, others do. So really neither side can be used as an overall example that would sum up all HOAs. So no direct comparison can be made other than your own situation. And to debate 2 situations as if they cover all is a worthless use of forum space.

And yet people who don’t and often have never lived in even one HOA make broad generalizations about them all. We see that here all the time, perhaps yourself included, but that doesn’t seem to be included in your admonition. Singing to the choir is easy…
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