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Author Topic: check your state's legislative history  (Read 1774 times)

WB2KSP

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2022, 06:30:26 PM »

My parents have lived in an HOA controlled neighborhood in Tampa, Florida since 1989. They have at one time or another been on the board of the HOA. They specifically asked if I could move to their community and install any kind of ham antenna. They were told under no circumstances could I do so. My brother and sister in law live in a HOA controlled neighborhood in Brandon, Florida. They received the same response as my parents. My friend just moved to a community in south eastern Florida. He's a ham and had to install a stealth antenna (Sorta like going behind mommy and daddy's back) If he wants to operate from his home. By the way, I asked my aunt and uncle who live in a HOA community in New Jersey the same question. Guess what the answer was. I don't have to stick my head in a noose to figure out what the result would be. Perhaps I'm a bit more perceptive than most...Nah, I'm just not naive.
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K7JQ

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #46 on: January 23, 2022, 05:04:15 AM »

My parents have lived in an HOA controlled neighborhood in Tampa, Florida since 1989. They have at one time or another been on the board of the HOA. They specifically asked if I could move to their community and install any kind of ham antenna. They were told under no circumstances could I do so. My brother and sister in law live in a HOA controlled neighborhood in Brandon, Florida. They received the same response as my parents. My friend just moved to a community in south eastern Florida. He's a ham and had to install a stealth antenna (Sorta like going behind mommy and daddy's back) If he wants to operate from his home. By the way, I asked my aunt and uncle who live in a HOA community in New Jersey the same question. Guess what the answer was. I don't have to stick my head in a noose to figure out what the result would be. Perhaps I'm a bit more perceptive than most...Nah, I'm just not naive.

David,
Well, yeah, they’re all in HOA’s with antenna restrictions ;). What do they expect? If that’s what the CC&R’s state, that’s the way it is if the Architectural Committee isn’t willing to grant a variance. It’s what a ham has to consider *before* purchase. Your friend installed a stealth antenna, like many hams do in a HOA. His choice, like mine. No big deal. I love and enjoy where I live, with ham radio still a workable hobby.

But let me ask: Besides the antenna issue, are your parents, brother and sister in law, your friend (all in Florida), and your aunt and uncle in New Jersey totally fed up with living in a HOA? Are they all unhappy and discontented with all the CC&R provisions, and constantly bickering with the HOA board that their “rights” have been violated? Like many on this forum depict, even though they’ve never lived in one ::).

73 and hope you’re doing well,

Bob K7JQ
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K1VSK

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #47 on: January 23, 2022, 06:49:33 AM »

My parents have lived in an HOA controlled neighborhood in Tampa, Florida since 1989. They have at one time or another been on the board of the HOA. They specifically asked if I could move to their community and install any kind of ham antenna. They were told under no circumstances could I do so. My brother and sister in law live in a HOA controlled neighborhood in Brandon, Florida. They received the same response as my parents. My friend just moved to a community in south eastern Florida. He's a ham and had to install a stealth antenna (Sorta like going behind mommy and daddy's back) If he wants to operate from his home. By the way, I asked my aunt and uncle who live in a HOA community in New Jersey the same question. Guess what the answer was. I don't have to stick my head in a noose to figure out what the result would be. Perhaps I'm a bit more perceptive than most...Nah, I'm just not naive.

It’s quite common for an HOA to say ‘no’ when it involves apartments/condos with nothing but common areas outside which is a fundamentally different situation than single homes. Often , people don’t differentiate as in the above.

Regardless, no one ever denied some HOAs are very restrictive. However, there are plenty of other choices when buying as well as staying - why some can only complain as though they have no choice is silly.
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W9FIB

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #48 on: January 23, 2022, 07:06:30 AM »

When did asking a simple question become “bullying”?

We see a lot of feigned moral superiority in general society these days but not here until now. Good demo!

LOL
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73, Stan
Travelling the world one signal at a time.

K1VSK

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #49 on: January 23, 2022, 11:06:20 AM »

When did asking a simple question become “bullying”?

We see a lot of feigned moral superiority in general society these days but not here until now. Good demo!

LOL

Another non-HOA resident heard from with nothing constructive to add as usual. 
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W9FIB

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #50 on: January 24, 2022, 05:50:43 AM »

When did asking a simple question become “bullying”?

We see a lot of feigned moral superiority in general society these days but not here until now. Good demo!

LOL

Another non-HOA resident heard from with nothing constructive to add as usual.

LOL
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73, Stan
Travelling the world one signal at a time.

W1MOW

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #51 on: January 24, 2022, 08:12:31 AM »

Depending on any crazy people on an HOA board, your mileage may vary ;).

And that is the crux of the problem. Where 1 person has no problems, others do. So really neither side can be used as an overall example that would sum up all HOAs. So no direct comparison can be made other than your own situation. And to debate 2 situations as if they cover all is a worthless use of forum space.

I thought that this statement sums it up well. I wish I had said it!

If you find fault in this statement, then maybe you're just a little too argumentative. I also fail to see what having lived in an H.O.A./C.C.R. has any bearing, it is a simple statement.

BTW...If H.O.A.'s are so great why are there over 25K videos on YouTube, many by broadcast stations, about abuses made by H.O.A. boards.

Gary W1MOW

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The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt - Bertram Russell (1935)

So not much has changed in almost 90 years!

K1VSK

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #52 on: January 24, 2022, 08:36:29 AM »





If you find fault in this statement, then maybe you're just a little too argumentative. I also fail to see what having lived in an H.O.A./C.C.R. has any bearing, it is a simple statement.

BTW...If H.O.A.'s are so great why are there over 25K videos on YouTube, many by broadcast stations, about abuses made by H.O.A. boards.

Gary W1MOW

Assuming you acknowledge that most people don’t write, post or otherwise note things with which they like, agree or approve of, it’s easy to let such complaints lead to judgment bias indicating everyone hates their HOA. In fact,if that were true, they wouldn’t live there, stay there or buy there. And once you acknowledge homes in HOAs at least in this part of paradise,  are in the greatest demand, sell like ‘hot cakes’ and have a higher value than non-HOA properties, the complaints fade into background noise.

Except of course by the people who don’t live in an HOA and just like to complain (or argue as you describe it) while ironically whining about freedom and minding their own business. The only plausible explanation for what motivates non-residents to complain about something extraneous to them is some self-esteem issue driving their need to feel better by criticizing others.
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K7JQ

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #53 on: January 24, 2022, 01:42:24 PM »


BTW...If H.O.A.'s are so great why are there over 25K videos on YouTube, many by broadcast stations, about abuses made by H.O.A. boards.

Gary W1MOW

Who said they're "great"? Many people like them, and many people don't. For all kinds of reasons. There are millions of YouTube videos on *everything*, good and bad. But I doubt if anyone would make a video, or a broadcast of "My HOA is wonderful" ;). Usually it's when they have a gripe.

I've always commented here on my HOA experiences, which have been satisfactory. I believe you lived in one, so you have your own opinion/experience. What sticks in my craw are those that criticize them without ever having lived in one.
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W9FIB

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #54 on: January 24, 2022, 01:43:28 PM »


Except of course by the people who don’t live in an HOA and just like to complain (or argue as you describe it) while ironically whining about freedom and minding their own business. The only plausible explanation for what motivates non-residents to complain about something extraneous to them is some self-esteem issue driving their need to feel better by criticizing others.

LOL
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73, Stan
Travelling the world one signal at a time.

WB2KSP

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #55 on: January 24, 2022, 05:32:09 PM »

"But let me ask: Besides the antenna issue, are your parents, brother and sister in law, your friend (all in Florida), and your aunt and uncle in New Jersey totally fed up with living in a HOA? Are they all unhappy and discontented with all the CC&R provisions, and constantly bickering with the HOA board that their “rights” have been violated? Like many on this forum depict, even though they’ve never lived in one ::). "


Good question Bob. The answer is that all are happy, but it's not a simple as that. They are all happy because they are not being denied the right to make use of their federally issued license to pursue what is actually a legal activity on their own property. I do agree that it would be inappropriate for an amateur radio operator to expect to make use of common land (land which they do not hold title to) to install a radio antenna. I also believe that it wouldn't be right for a neighbor to install a tower (50 feet or higher) on a postage sized plot of land. It's not as though I'm suggesting that because I hold title to and pay taxes on a specific piece of land that I can do anything I want such as open a business. That's why we have zoning laws. I reside on 1/3 of an acre and have installed two wire antennas. One for 20 meters at approx 75 feet above ground and the other a 80/40 meter V up about 60 feet at its apex. With these antennas I have confirmed 299 entities and have DXCC on 80-10 meters, all without the use of an amplifier. My antennas are not visible from the front of my home. I had a TH5 on the roof of my old home. I could reinstall it at my present home or I could put up a hex beam. I chose not to because my current arrangement has proven satisfactory for my needs. The reason for my participation in this forum (Not currently living in a HOA/covenant restricted home) is because when I started looking for homes to move to after my retirement (which happened a year and a half ago), I couldn't find a home that met my standard, having been built within the past 10 years or so,  without a HOA/covenant restriction. Sure I could buy land and build my dream home but guess what the chances would be of having public utility services (sewers, natural gas, high speed fiber based internet, and public water service (No wells or septic tanks). I have all of those at my current location and I don't live in the woods (I'm 35 minutes from midtown Manhattan). If I could find a new neighborhood which offered me similar quality of life items and allowed me to pursue my hobby without going behind mommy and daddy's back, I might consider a move. As of today I haven't found any newer neighborhoods (My present home was built in 1985. I've replaced both the  heating and central air systems as well as the roof, driveway etc. I don't want to move into an older home and face those expenses again). As I've stated, all the newer neighborhoods I've found are part of a HOA operating under the rule of these restrictive covenants.
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K7JQ

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2022, 05:31:34 AM »

"But let me ask: Besides the antenna issue, are your parents, brother and sister in law, your friend (all in Florida), and your aunt and uncle in New Jersey totally fed up with living in a HOA? Are they all unhappy and discontented with all the CC&R provisions, and constantly bickering with the HOA board that their “rights” have been violated? Like many on this forum depict, even though they’ve never lived in one ::). "


Good question Bob. The answer is that all are happy, but it's not a simple as that. They are all happy because they are not being denied the right to make use of their federally issued license to pursue what is actually a legal activity on their own property.


David,

I’m a little confused about your third sentence. Your original post stated that those people *are* being denied the “right” to make use of their federally issued license…erecting an antenna. Maybe you meant something else, or I’m misinterpreting what you stated.

The fact is that CC&R’s are legally enforceable laws of a community. A sign of the times…that’s just the way it is. You own a car, but you must wear a seatbelt. A motorcycle in some states, you must wear a helmet. A house with CC&R antenna restrictions, you can’t erect an antenna. All subject to reprimand if you don’t obey.

As I’ve said many times before, I’m not choked up with my community’s antenna restrictions, but I do what I feel I must to still happily enjoy my hobby…stealth antennas. Otherwise, I’m very content where I live. To me, ham radio is my hobby, subject to other facets and priorities in my life. I had my tri-bander and tower back in Philly before HOA/CC&R’s came into being. Now in Arizona, I choose what’s available according to my wants and needs. We all have choices, and sometimes compromises must be made.

BTW, have you noticed that in the past few years, we haven’t heard a peep out of the ARRL in their legislative efforts to acquire reasonable antenna accommodations in HOA/CC&R communities? I think even they’ve given up.

Bob K7JQ
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K1VSK

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #57 on: January 25, 2022, 06:06:24 AM »

Quote
.

BTW, have you noticed that in the past few years, we haven’t heard a peep out of the ARRL in their legislative efforts to acquire reasonable antenna accommodations in HOA/CC&R communities? I think even they’ve given up.

Bob K7JQ

Bob
I received an email from one of my Section managers that the ARRL discussed allocating $300,000 for lobbying expenses to advocate for this once again. The proposal apparently hasn’t been implemented yet but the fact they are going about it again in the same way they previously failed is interesting. Not a peep out of the ARRL officially admitting it but I doubt my Section guy would make this up.
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K7JQ

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #58 on: January 25, 2022, 07:32:58 AM »

Quote
.

BTW, have you noticed that in the past few years, we haven’t heard a peep out of the ARRL in their legislative efforts to acquire reasonable antenna accommodations in HOA/CC&R communities? I think even they’ve given up.

Bob K7JQ

Bob
I received an email from one of my Section managers that the ARRL discussed allocating $300,000 for lobbying expenses to advocate for this once again. The proposal apparently hasn’t been implemented yet but the fact they are going about it again in the same way they previously failed is interesting. Not a peep out of the ARRL officially admitting it but I doubt my Section guy would make this up.

Interesting indeed. Based on past failures, IMO a gross waste of money. I have no idea what new approach they can take, but their previous reliance on the term “reasonable accommodation” is too vague. It’s up to unlimited interpretation, continued HOA denials of what a ham deems reasonable, and we’re back to square one. Even if they specify things like ‘wires, verticals, height limitations’, hams still won’t be happy ::).

I’ve seen CC&R’s that state “Radio antennas are prohibited, unless approved by the Architectural Committee”. An apparent crack in the armor, but generally you can’t apply for a variance until after you purchase the property.
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W1MOW

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Re: check your state's legislative history
« Reply #59 on: January 25, 2022, 09:23:20 AM »


Interesting indeed. Based on past failures, IMO a gross waste of money. I have no idea what new approach they can take, but their previous reliance on the term “reasonable accommodation” is too vague. It’s up to unlimited interpretation, continued HOA denials of what a ham deems reasonable, and we’re back to square one. Even if they specify things like ‘wires, verticals, height limitations’, hams still won’t be happy ::).
[/quote]

I am not sure why "reasonable accommodation" is such a bad thing, and yes you're never going to make everyone happy!

Would not it be better for H.O.A.'s to say you may have a "flag pole" style antenna,  2-3 wire antennas, and one 2m/70cm antenna as long as they are not visible from the roadway. This would also let a lot of Hams out of the "closet or attic" as the case maybe. It may also reduce the headaches for the H.O.A.

Gary W1MOW
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The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt - Bertram Russell (1935)

So not much has changed in almost 90 years!
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