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Author Topic: Using tree branch overhanging my property  (Read 1112 times)

W1VT

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Re: Using tree branch overhanging my property
« Reply #45 on: November 01, 2022, 05:41:35 AM »

One of the fundamental concepts of antenna safety is keeping electrical conductors and antennas separated from each other.

Fatalities or deaths often result when antennas accidently come in contact with electrical wires.

This  is also the greatest danger of model rocketry.  People coming into contact with electrical wires attempting to retrieve their model rockets.
I've been to a very popular rocket site near Boston.  They have professionals show up at the end of the rocket launch to retrieve any models that get caught on the overhead power lines.
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KK4GMU

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Re: Using tree branch overhanging my property
« Reply #46 on: November 01, 2022, 05:51:22 AM »

There are a few HOAs that mis-apply, mistakenly apply, over apply, or wrongly apply their codes, or fail to apply common sense, and have toxic personalities. 

I've recently been reminded that a similar fate can befall the occasional, although rare, individual in the technical professions.

The primary purpose of the vast majority of HOAs is aesthetics control, with some also concerned with wind load.  Most anything else is under the domain of the homeowner.  Even most building codes ignore any improvement by the homeowner valued under several hundred dollars.

Sure, dumb and dangerous things can be done.  But thank goodness there isn't an overbearing "you'll-shoot-your-eye-out" mother hanging over our every move and we can still exercise discretion and common sense.
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IC-7100, RSPdx, AT-D878UVII-Plus HT, TGIF Spot

W9IQ

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Re: Using tree branch overhanging my property
« Reply #47 on: November 01, 2022, 06:08:50 AM »

Antennas are NOT covered by that article in NEC.  They are covered in article 230, as well as more in depth in article 810.

Some minor polishing of this, Shane.

Amateur radio antennas are covered in Chapter 8. No other section of the code applies unless so stated in the applicable sub section of chapter 8 or its references. So don't read something in chapters 1 through 7 and assume it applies to amateur radio antennas. To be specific, article 230 is not referenced by the applicable sections of chapter 8 so it does not apply to the amateur radio antenna system. It will apply only to the mains power supplying the station.

There are differences in chapter 8 between a receive antenna (part 2) and an amateur radio antenna (part 3). The wire gauge chart should be 810.52 from part 3 when dealing with an amateur radio antenna. The 810.16 chart applies only to receiving antennas.

I do agree that any notion that you cannot use a tree as an amateur radio antenna support is completely bogus. Chapter 8 and its references do not exclude this possibility.

- Glenn W9IQ
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- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.

KD6VXI

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Re: Using tree branch overhanging my property
« Reply #48 on: November 02, 2022, 12:42:48 PM »

I'd like to see what NEC codes you're violating hanging wires for antennas in trees.

--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI
Good question Shane but no one here wants to hear or see it.

225.26 Vegetation as Support.
Vegetation such as trees shall not be used for support of overhead conductor spans.

In addition, unless you bought a commercial antenna or know what wire type and size can be used, very few hams comply with Table 810.16 requiring hard drawn copper or copper clad steel wire. Most hams use house wire or soft drawn copper.

Article 225 applies to "Outside Branch Circuits and Feeders" et al. It does not apply to antennas.

- Glenn W9IQ
I already pointed that out to him.

He's not concerning himself with facts, intent or actual rules.

Just what he wants to interpret them as.


--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI
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KD6VXI

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Re: Using tree branch overhanging my property
« Reply #49 on: November 02, 2022, 12:50:17 PM »

Antennas are NOT covered by that article in NEC.  They are covered in article 230, as well as more in depth in article 810.

Some minor polishing of this, Shane.

Amateur radio antennas are covered in Chapter 8. No other section of the code applies unless so stated in the applicable sub section of chapter 8 or its references. So don't read something in chapters 1 through 7 and assume it applies to amateur radio antennas. To be specific, article 230 is not referenced by the applicable sections of chapter 8 so it does not apply to the amateur radio antenna system. It will apply only to the mains power supplying the station.

There are differences in chapter 8 between a receive antenna (part 2) and an amateur radio antenna (part 3). The wire gauge chart should be 810.52 from part 3 when dealing with an amateur radio antenna. The 810.16 chart applies only to receiving antennas.

I do agree that any notion that you cannot use a tree as an amateur radio antenna support is completely bogus. Chapter 8 and its references do not exclude this possibility.

- Glenn W9IQ

Agreed.  With the stipulation that it always goes back to the authority having jurisdiction.

I fought an authority once.  Said my grounding system wasn't good enough for a service entrance.  Went round and round with the local inspector.

Turns out, he approved a ground system that was outside of typical, on a commercial shopping mall.  When it caught on fire, it was his ass in a sling.

His response to me was, "You know what, you're probably right.  Matter of fact, I'll give it to you that you're right.  However, to get me to see it your way professionaly you will require getting the UL book.  To do this, you must become a member.  To become a member, it's 10K dollars."

"Do you think your boss is going to back you, or tell you to rip this out and do it the way I'm telling you to do it".

I ended up installing the ground system he wanted.

I used article 250 for the support issue, as it showed areas you could not use as a support, for anything, other than the service entrance.

No matter what article 8 says, section 250 will be cited by an inspector in the know.  Because I've never found an inspector that understood article 8.  Even when working on a shortwave facility and at various AM and FM stations in California.

They just took your word.


--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI
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W9IQ

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Re: Using tree branch overhanging my property
« Reply #50 on: November 02, 2022, 03:38:32 PM »

So true, Shane. NEC makes good reading but the AHJ rules - AKA don't piss off the judge and jury.

- Glenn W9IQ
« Last Edit: November 02, 2022, 03:43:48 PM by W9IQ »
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- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.

K6JH

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Re: Using tree branch overhanging my property
« Reply #51 on: November 02, 2022, 05:44:07 PM »

So true, Shane. NEC makes good reading but the AHJ rules - AKA don't piss off the judge and jury.

- Glenn W9IQ
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Jim K6JH

K3ZD

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Re: Using tree branch overhanging my property
« Reply #52 on: November 10, 2022, 10:56:36 AM »

I live in a typical neighborhood with antenna rules but put up a random length end fed stealth wire from a small tree along side my shack window to bigger tree in the front yard and no one has said anything.  Either they can't see it or don't care.  If they do I'll just take it down. 
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N5PNZ

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Re: Using tree branch overhanging my property
« Reply #53 on: November 25, 2022, 06:50:32 AM »

Neighbors are not legally responsible for their 60 foot Sycamore tree roots destroying my driveway and cracking the house foundation, so I used the limbs that cross 20+ feet over my driveway to support wire antennas.  When the trees started to affect their buildings they cut them down.

Notice:  While they do make good antenna supports, if a neighbor plants a Sycamore within 20 feet of any of your structures or plumbing.....time to move.
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W9WQA

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Re: Using tree branch overhanging my property
« Reply #54 on: November 25, 2022, 07:31:53 AM »

Neighbors are not legally responsible for their 60 foot Sycamore tree roots destroying my driveway and cracking the house foundation, so I used the limbs that cross 20+ feet over my driveway to support wire antennas.  When the trees started to affect their buildings they cut them down.

Notice:  While they do make good antenna supports, if a neighbor plants a Sycamore within 20 feet of any of your structures or plumbing.....time to move.

think id dig a trench on my property and chop roots off
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KD3Y

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Re: Using tree branch overhanging my property
« Reply #55 on: November 27, 2022, 03:14:55 PM »


Someone has a problem with reading comprehension and does not know what a conductor span is. Again, blatant disregard to electrical codes and safety.

Dangit!  Grannys wire clothes line is violating the NEC.  I say throw the old biddie in the slammer!

And them out door Christmas trees with "conductor spans" wrapped around them getcha lethal injection in most jurisdictions.  :)

« Last Edit: November 27, 2022, 03:23:11 PM by KD3Y »
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