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Author Topic: HOA post by Mike  (Read 2244 times)

W6MK

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Re: HOA post by Mike
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2022, 04:21:46 PM »

 
Perhaps some Internet/computer wise person could start a collection point for this type of information and assemble it into a book form?
I don't live in a building with HOA restrictions yet I regularly read posts on about hams dealing with
restrictive antenna environments, especially those in HOA buildings.

It's some of the most interesting and creative problem-solving in ham radio.

There are many ham websites with ideas for antennas for restricted areas. Sure, someone could compile a useful list of discussions. On the other hand doing a bit of internet cruising on the related topics is fun and informative. And easy.

Even for those of us who live HOA-free!
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K8AXW

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Re: HOA post by Mike
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2022, 09:38:45 AM »

Quote
It's some of the most interesting and creative problem-solving in ham radio.

I agree 100%!  However, while surfing the web will produce answers it's extremely time consuming.  Imagine sitting down with a book that is categorized in with real life experiences with where to set up your gear, antennas and how effective they are and how to hide them, power levels, approaching the HOA council....and the other number of subjects. 

How would one develop/find an accumulation point for this subject?  Or would it be a search and document project with the additional burden of acquiring permission to publish from each person?

 IS IT POSSIBLE TO CREATE/ASK FOR A NEW FORUM HERE THAT DEALS ONLY WITH HOA ??
« Last Edit: January 23, 2022, 09:55:50 AM by K8AXW »
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A Pessimist is Never Disappointed!

K7JQ

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Re: HOA post by Mike
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2022, 12:03:10 PM »

I believe each HOA/CC&R situation for hams is unique in it’s own right. It would be difficult to generalize what steps one should take in dealing with it. No one-size-fits-all solution…so many variables. CC&R’s are legally enforceable. It’s your choice to determine whether you want to appeal to the HOA for some antenna accommodation, or just do your thing with stealth, and take your chances that you’re not discovered.

IMO, I think this “Antenna Restrictions” forum topic was originally set up for suggesting antenna design ideas for space restricted QTH’s (towers not practical), whether under CC&R’s or not. But it has generally been a pro vs con debate on the HOA/CC&R condition. An “HOA Only” forum would probably just exacerbate the back and forth bickering that already shows up here. And I admit to being a frequent contributor as having extensive experience living in three such communities in the last 30 years ;).

Bob K7JQ
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W2NER

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Re: HOA post by Mike
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2023, 07:58:09 PM »

Just a FYI, I live in a HOA and its a PITA to deal with however, I got around it by applying for an approval to install a 30ft flagpole.  This was approved but even if it was denied, its not legal to restrict the erection of a flagpole to display the American flag. This is a federal law so, I was not worried about it at all.  Its now a 43 ft flagpole with wire off the top for an inverted L antenna for 160 meters.  Its been installed as a tilt over and totally insulated from ground.
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LA9XNA

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Re: HOA post by Mike
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2023, 01:30:42 AM »

If you plan to work in the 100W range there are a simple option of using a long dopingtestet fishing pole or a spider beam pole.
Have a relatively thin wire fixed to the top.
Set it up in a place where you can extend and retract it in a simple. Add as many counterpoise wires as possible.
Use a longwire tuner like the AH-3 or AH-4 at the bottom connected to the counterpoise and the antenna wire.
Operate during the dark hours.
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W2NER

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Re: HOA post by Mike
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2023, 05:19:47 AM »

Oh, and I forgot to mention, I run legal limit using a MFJ-998 in the shack, which has worked perfect for many years.  It's a real flagpole, 3.5 in at the base and 1.5 in at the top.


Just a FYI, I live in a HOA and its a PITA to deal with however, I got around it by applying for an approval to install a 30ft flagpole.  This was approved but even if it was denied, its not legal to restrict the erection of a flagpole to display the American flag. This is a federal law so, I was not worried about it at all.  Its now a 43 ft flagpole with wire off the top for an inverted L antenna for 160 meters.  Its been installed as a tilt over and totally insulated from ground.
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KF5KWO

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Re: HOA post by Mike
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2023, 05:53:23 AM »

I’ve been lucky in the two HOAs I’ve dealt with. I currently have a 1/4-wave stealth wire vertical and an MFJ 10m Moxon concealed and camouflaged in the trees in our backyard. I’m lucky to have the trees because since I’m on a corner lot, people can drive not just along the front of the property, but up/down one side of it. All the trees do a great job, so if you’ve got trees, you’ve got the perfect place for at least wire antennas. I also have an MFJ-1786 mag loop that is painted and kind-of disguised as yard art/kids’ plaything on top of a 12-foot pole in the backyard. Still conceal from the streets, but I have a cover story. And it doesn’t look like an antenna to the layman, so that makes it nice. I’ve also run a wire loop all the way around the house on the eaves of the roof, about 12 feet off the ground, used it on 75m for a while. Used an MFJ tuner and fed it with twin lead. Check out my QRZ page and look at the map of my QTH, you’ll see what I mean in re the trees. 

In my previous QTH, we lived in an end-unit townhome that backed up to a greenbelt. Along with the MFJ mag loop on that same 12-foot pole secured horizontally to the deck railing with pipe clamps, I made a 40m inverted V, with the feedpoint at the eaves of the roof right outside my 3rd floor bedroom window, and the two lengths of wire going out into that greenbelt. Nobody said anything, heck even — I — could barely see it or notice it unless I knew exactly where to look. 

So, overall, wire is probably the *first* route to consider since it can be very thin and therefore easy to hide in plain sight, but your mileage may vary, so the designs mentioned above are as legit as any other. Having trees and other shielding from the street definitely helps. If you’ve got trees, a vertical (either wire or properly painted) is a great idea, on the verge of being a “no-brainer.” But start small and take your time. It may take a few weekends, you don’t want to be seen outside all day and attract attention. Write down your plan — makes it much easier!!! This way you don’t attract attention and get the lookie-loos curious. After you get one up, just operate with that one for awhile, making sure you don’t get talk about interference, nosey neighbors, etc. Read your HOA newsletter, and attend a meeting to make sure no one is voicing any complaints. Check out your neighborhoods Nextdoor website if they have one, for people asking questions or complaining. After a few months with not a peep from anyone, put up another one if you want. Gotta pretend you’re a secret communicator behind enemy lines!

Jeff, KF5KWO
« Last Edit: January 24, 2023, 05:56:04 AM by KF5KWO »
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K4FMH

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Re: HOA post by Mike
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2023, 07:45:24 AM »

One red herring on some comments in this thread. HOA CC&Rs change all the time! Some ban renting of houses (renting and leasing have different legal standing in many states). Required brick options go out of production so new house construction are accommodated. The ability to park vehicles on curbs, for how long, and at what times get changed.

The statement in a CC&R that “no aerials are allowed” when there are plenty of “aerials” for other devices in plain view (security cameras, etc.) is selective enforcement against ham antennas, if that be the case. I watch an “aerial” atop a 50’ mast every day in my HOA neighborhood without so much as a peep from the HOA Board. Why? It is on a sailboat in our neighborhood marina and not even questioned!

Why should amateurs not petition for CC&R change when many, many non-ham radio rules are changed all the time? Go down to a Chancery Court and go through the filings to count the number of HOA CC&R changes are registered. This may change your understanding of the situation. Perhaps not.

73,

Frank
K4FMH
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WY4J

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Re: HOA post by Mike
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2023, 10:08:05 AM »

Upon retirement we purchased a new house in an HOA community. This property was selected because the yard is part of a wooded section which belongs to the community with large trees. In 4 years no one has ever stepped in this wooded area except me. I originally put up a 30 foot flagpole antenna and this worked out well. The following year I ventured out into the woods and erected a full size 133 foot Carolina Windom. Before they laid the sod I spoke to the contruction supervisor and told him that I was going to lay down 1,500 of radials. He did not care what I did since he said it was my property. I even recruited some of his construction workers to dig the base and pour 800 lbs of concrete. The windom is totally stealth, quieter and performs much better than the vertical. So I have two antennas up and no one knows they are there. Of couse, is not the 4 element SteppIR I had in my old QTH but they do the job.
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WA2ONH

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Re: HOA post by Mike
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2023, 12:31:09 PM »

A HOA community is The Villages in Florida. They formed a Amateur Radio Club
and published a booklet of all the Antenna ideas brainstormed by its members.

The Villages Amateur Radio Club site is ...
 https://www.k4vrc.com/

Here's a link to that document entitled
2015 Antenna Guide for The Villages
http://www.k4vrc.com/uploads/1/0/1/5/10156032/2015_tvarc_antenna_guide.pdf

The booklet is 73-pages long with approx file size of 8,083kb

Hope it will provide you with some antenna ideas at your HOA QTH.
.
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73 de WA2ONH  <dit dit> ... Charlie
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KF5KWO

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Re: HOA post by Mike
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2023, 01:06:11 PM »

@WY4J - Excellent!
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K7JQ

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Re: HOA post by Mike
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2023, 01:17:28 PM »

A HOA community is The Villages in Florida. They formed a Amateur Radio Club
and published a booklet of all the Antenna ideas brainstormed by its members.

The Villages Amateur Radio Club site is ...
 https://www.k4vrc.com/

Here's a link to that document entitled
2015 Antenna Guide for The Villages
http://www.k4vrc.com/uploads/1/0/1/5/10156032/2015_tvarc_antenna_guide.pdf

The booklet is 73-pages long with approx file size of 8,083kb

Hope it will provide you with some antenna ideas at your HOA QTH.
.

They left out an 89 foot crank-up tower and stacked 4-element SteppIR beams with the trombone elements ;D.

Seriously, some great ideas. Where there is a will, there's a way. Looks like the Villages allow for "reasonable accommodation". The screwdriver is the only one with a "B" rating with no tuner needed. I'll vouch for that.
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W4FID

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Re: HOA post by Mike
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2023, 06:01:07 AM »

The key may be the power. There will be high voltage at some point of a wire antenna that can be dangerous or a fire hazard if the wire is too close to anything flammable. But the lower the power the lower the risk. QRP does work. Especially now and for the next few years with good sun spots. So at low power you can just throw a wire with good insulation over your roof or a tree branch and end feed it. If it's not invisible enough just pull it down when you're not using it. A hamstick dipole on a painter's pole bungie corded to something goes up and down in minutes and should be OK after dark. With quick disconnects on the hamsticks you can even change bands easily. On 30 meters they are OK. On 20 and above they do surprisingly well. Also CW or FT8 allow more QSOs with less power and less antenna. A loop on a camera tripod or a speaker tripod if you need more stability also goes up/down quickly. I use my LNR loop inside (if the building is frame construction) or on hotel balconies or just outside a door in the  yard often when I travel and have a lot of QSOs and fun. There are several remote tune ones available that allow the antenna to be up to 50 feet from the rig so finding a rig table and antenna spot can work. Be able to work various modes. CW, FT8, SSB. Be as flexible on band choice as you can. Then work whomever you can work on whatever band and mode you can and enjoy the QSOs you do have.
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