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Author Topic: Apache 14-bit Hermes new batch  (Read 500 times)

W1ITT

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Apache 14-bit Hermes new batch
« on: February 10, 2022, 11:46:36 AM »

Apache Labs has announced a new production run of their 14-bit Hermes transceiver board.  I just ordered mine.  Get 'em while they're hot.

https://apache-labs.com/al-products/1022/Open-HPSDR-Hermes-14-bit-ADC-EP3C25-Transceiver-Card-Assembled--Tested.html

73 de Norm W1ITT
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AB6RF

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Re: Apache 14-bit Hermes new batch
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2022, 05:36:21 PM »

Norm,

I like experimenting with radios, and took a quick look at the Hermes board on the Apache Labs web site.
The board seems like a pretty old design, and there are other newer versions available.

Knowing nothing about the Hermes board, would you mind highlighting the differences between this Hermes board and for example the Hermes Lite 2?
The Hermes Lite 2 seems to be a newer design, has 5W TX output (vs. 400mW) and comes at a lower cost.

What are the pros of the original Hermes board?
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W1ITT

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Re: Apache 14-bit Hermes new batch
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2022, 06:21:50 PM »

Mikko...
Well the first bestest thing about the Hermes 14 bit board is that is available...or will be on 25 March.  HermesLite is a cool project but suffers from the same problem that many manufacturers have and that is unavailability of components.  Both are 14-bit DACs.  The Hermes can be set up for PureSignal, the feedback loop that can be run around subsequent amplifiers to produce a signal with better than minus-50db IMD.  I'm not sure if HermesLite can do that.  And being old-school I like that the Apache Hermes has real audio and key connections in and out, as well as open collector outputs to control things.
Yes, you have to add TR switching and amplification to get to what I consider useful power levels, but I have a couple solid state amplifier bricks from old transceivers as well as some switchable low pass filters. I like that the N2ADR board, when available, does a lot of that for the -Lite series, but I don't mind a bit of metal bashing and doing it myself.  I think the spinoff HermesLite2-Plus project takes care of some of my complaints.  I can't recall if the -Lite will take a 10mhz reference signal from my rubidium standard, but that's merely a geek preference of mine. The ApacheHermes has that covered. As far as power level, some guys use the lower power board to drive transverters and a happy.
I have the original TAPR Atlas Mercury/Penelope combination from which all these, both Apache and -Lite descended, so I'm a bit prejudiced toward the Apache line as Abhi of Apache was one of the instigator/enablers of the Hermes project which got carried forward to the current Anan line.
I guess we pay our money and take our choice.  Coming available at a time when I'm ready to pounce, the Apache Hermes 14-bit hits the spot.  Despite the troubles that the world seems to be in now, we hams are fortunate to have the choices that we have.  Either way, we get a lot of capability for our dollar., stuff I never dreamed of 55 years ago when I got my novice ticket.
I suppose this reply won't be much help, other than to get you thinking a bit more.  Sleep on it and go with what makes you happy.
73 de Norm W1ITT
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KD6VXI

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Re: Apache 14-bit Hermes new batch
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2022, 02:45:06 AM »

Norm,

The hermes lite has everything you ticked on your list, sand an onboard sound card.

It also has the capability for EER, envelope elimination and restoration.  Natively.  It has predistortiin.  It has the capability to sync a second hermes lite for diversity reception.  It can be used as a VNA without purchasing much more than an attenuator.  And if you're careful, you probably don't need that, either.

It's also got band outputs for autoswitching a linear, antenna matrix, etc.  It has its own low pass filter board in the finished product.

I looked hard at both radios and went with the hermes lite.  All around, it's a more complete package.  Coupled with a pair of mrf300 or any ldmos and you can have a 600 Watt to legal limit radio that just follows you around.

It uses protocol 1, which thetis recently provided backwards compatibility for.

And one of the biggest pluses to me, it's still supported by the people who designed it!

The Anan 10e is a great radio.  But time marched on.

Happy people are getting to pick one up if they wanted one and missed out.  I was one of those people, to be sure.  But I decided when the covid pandemic shutdowns hit early, I needed a new toy NOW!!!, and I jumped in to the HL2.  No looking back.

--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI
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W1ITT

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Re: Apache 14-bit Hermes new batch
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2022, 08:41:13 AM »

Hi Shane...
I hope you're enjoying the tropical bliss at the new QTH.  Actually I had set out to get a HermesLite a number of weeks ago, but didn't.  The next day I went back to MakerFabs site and they were sold out.  To get back to the first point in my reply to Mikko, a big point in my decision was the fact that the ApacheHermes was actually available on the day I decided to jump on it.  From radios to cat food, it seems that he who hesitates is lost in the modern market.
The notion of a radio being a Swiss Army knife that can also be a network analyzer, signal generator, etc is interesting but the idea that I have to pull my station rat's nest apart to use it that way takes some of the fun away.
I have HewlettPackard and Array Solutions network analyzers that I tote around the world but, with the NanoVNA as cheap as it is, I often take it out back for regular ham radio tasks.    For most hams it's all they need. 
I see that ApacheLabs sold over 150 of the 250 unit run on the first day, so there's demand out there, whether it be Apache or MakerFabs.  It's almost a Coke or Pepsi choice and a fellow can't go too far wrong. 
73 de Norm W1ITT
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N6YWU

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Re: Apache 14-bit Hermes new batch
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2022, 08:59:32 AM »

What appears to be holding up production of more Hermes Lite 2's kits at Makerfabs is available of EP4CE22 FPGAs.  If Apache Labs is now finding reasonably priced availability of EP3C25 FPGAs for the much older openHPSDR Hermes design, there's hope that the worldwide semiconductor supply chain shortage is getting a bit closer to an end.

But both are great network connected SDR rigs, so I'm working on software apps so that you can operate them (without a PC) from your iPhone or iPad.
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AB6RF

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Re: Apache 14-bit Hermes new batch
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2022, 05:16:47 PM »

Thanks to everyone for the very detailed information. I learned a great deal from this thread here.
I see a Hermes Lite 2 in my future :-)
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K9AQ

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Re: Apache 14-bit Hermes new batch
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2022, 05:57:27 AM »

I use a Hermes Lite 2 with Pure Signal, to drive a homebrew 1KW amplifier.  The Hermes Lite 2 does NOT have a build in audio input or output, so you audio has to go through the computer sound card.   If you use MME drivers you can anticipate over 100 ms of latency. I have never been able to get lower latency drivers to work and also get clean sounding audio. 

The Hermes Lite 2 also does not have a build in CW keyer and doesn't operate on 6M.

The Hermes Lite 2 Plus is a split off group that developed a companion board that provides on board audio and CW keyer. https://groups.io/g/HermesLite2Plus/topics

The only way to operate on 6M is with an external transverter.

I would love it if Apache Labs would reintroduce the 10D.

73 Don K9AQ
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N6YWU

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Re: Apache 14-bit Hermes new batch
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2022, 08:40:48 AM »

The Hermes Lite 2 does NOT have a build in audio input or output, so you audio has to go through the computer sound card.   If you use MME drivers you can anticipate over 100 ms of latency.

How are you measuring latency? 

The HL2 has a 10 mS transmit buffer.  And the round trip network latency for the small (2.6 mS of audio) UDP packets used by openHPSDR Protocol 1 should on the order of a dozen mS or so on a fast network.  So the rest is computer software, key/keyboard IO, and computer audio overhead.
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WB8LBZ

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Re: Apache 14-bit Hermes new batch
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2022, 01:33:23 PM »

Thanks Norm, I just visited the site. Out of 250 projected for the run, they had sold over 170 when I was there. Finding one on the used market is impossible.

73, Larry  WB8LBZ
El Paso, TX
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