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Author Topic: Best way to communicate if internet down nation-wide.  (Read 1392 times)

KK4GMU

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Best way to communicate if internet down nation-wide.
« on: February 12, 2022, 08:48:11 AM »

Now that many of us are aware that it is possible if not likely that the internet can be taken down nationwide by any number of bad actors, and cell service may be similarly impacted...

What remains as the best radio methodolgy to communicate with distant parties?  Anyrhing aside from Simplex?
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K4GTE

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Re: Best way to communicate if internet down nation-wide.
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2022, 09:00:59 AM »

It would probably take an EMP detonation to take down all internet and cell phones. If that's the case, unless your radio equipment is in a Faraday cage it will be fried as well and useless.
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W1VT

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Re: Best way to communicate if internet down nation-wide.
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2022, 09:04:06 AM »

If it is raining space junk that can be used to reflect radio signals.
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KK4GMU

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Re: Best way to communicate if internet down nation-wide.
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2022, 09:09:19 AM »

It would probably take an EMP detonation to take down all internet and cell phones. If that's the case, unless your radio equipment is in a Faraday cage it will be fried as well and useless.
Hacking is a much more likely cause than EMP. It happens nearly daily on a corporate or local basis. A foreign entity that wants to put us in our place may have means, motive and opportunity.  The technology is there.
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K6BRN

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Re: Best way to communicate if internet down nation-wide.
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2022, 09:23:14 AM »

What remains as the best radio methodolgy to communicate with distant parties?  Anyrhing aside from Simplex?

As usual ....

HF frequencies for long-haul communications (yes, its "simplex")

VHF/UHF for local communications (simplex, too)

CW, SSB or even digital (at low rates) is useful on HF, especially during the rising solar cycle we are now in.

Brian - K6BRN

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K6SDW

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Re: Best way to communicate if internet down nation-wide.
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2022, 10:08:01 AM »

How about smoke signals or semaphore flags?

GL/73
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W1VT

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Re: Best way to communicate if internet down nation-wide.
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2022, 10:08:15 AM »

Meteors  normally entering the atmosphere can easily support a few bit/s data rate on 6M.

Less well known is ionospheric scatter.  I believe Joe Taylor had an interest in that when he was young. Yes, the Joe Taylor that won a Nobel Prize!

http://www.g1ogy.com/www.n1bug.net/prop/ionscatr.html
« Last Edit: February 12, 2022, 10:11:38 AM by W1VT »
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K1VSK

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Re: Best way to communicate if internet down nation-wide.
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2022, 10:25:42 AM »



What remains as the best radio methodolgy to communicate with distant parties?  Anyrhing aside from Simplex?

Boefungs don’t like EMP.
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KC9YAV

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Re: Best way to communicate if internet down nation-wide.
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2022, 11:24:02 AM »

Maybe the better question to ask is “How prepared are we / you for a major regional power outage?”  This is more likely given the age and condition of or power grid.  It happens all the time due to natural disasters such as hurricanes, tornados, and ice storms (Texas 2021).  Then there was the east coast black out in 2003 that affected both eastern Canada and the entire northeastern US.

These events result in disruption of internet, cell, cable, fuel, and transportation.  Granted some of these have backup systems, but they only work for so long.

Yes, we Ham’s probably will be able to communicate, we are for the most part a creative lot.  However maybe we should consider how we would fair at home for 7 – 10 days without commercial power or natural gas.
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W1VT

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Re: Best way to communicate if internet down nation-wide.
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2022, 12:17:51 PM »

However maybe we should consider how we would fair at home for 7 – 10 days without commercial power or natural gas.
Rare October snowstorm brought down tons of trees and many of us were without power for 7 to 10 days.
My house has a fireplace that was used for heat for  the first time in fifty years! 
I have dry wood in the back yard that can be used for heat.

Zak W1VT
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W9FIB

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Re: Best way to communicate if internet down nation-wide.
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2022, 01:36:54 PM »

Now that many of us are aware that it is possible if not likely that the internet can be taken down nationwide by any number of bad actors, and cell service may be similarly impacted...

What remains as the best radio methodolgy to communicate with distant parties?  Anyrhing aside from Simplex?

Too many devices with many interconnections to be able to target them all at once.
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73, Stan
Travelling the world one signal at a time.

K6CPO

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Re: Best way to communicate if internet down nation-wide.
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2022, 12:29:53 PM »

What remains as the best radio methodolgy to communicate with distant parties?  Anyrhing aside from Simplex?

As usual ....

HF frequencies for long-haul communications (yes, its "simplex")

VHF/UHF for local communications (simplex, too)

CW, SSB or even digital (at low rates) is useful on HF, especially during the rising solar cycle we are now in.

Brian - K6BRN

Don't forget grid-independent repeaters.  My club has two repeaters that are 100% solar powered.  They will be up even if the electrical grid goes down.
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KG4RUL

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Re: Best way to communicate if internet down nation-wide.
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2022, 01:18:20 PM »

All disasters are local.  So, what would your communications needs be beyond your immediate neighborhood/community?
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K6BRN

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Re: Best way to communicate if internet down nation-wide.
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2022, 11:02:33 AM »

What remains as the best radio methodolgy to communicate with distant parties?  Anyrhing aside from Simplex?

As usual ....  HF frequencies for long-haul communications (yes, its "simplex").  VHF/UHF for local communications (simplex, too).  CW, SSB or even digital (at low rates) is useful on HF, especially during the rising solar cycle we are now in.  Brian - K6BRN

Don't forget grid-independent repeaters.  My club has two repeaters that are 100% solar powered.  They will be up even if the electrical grid goes down.

Quote
All disasters are local.  So, what would your communications needs be beyond your immediate neighborhood/community?

You guys have definitely lead sheltered lives.  Many emergencies are not local at all - at least not in the sense that a handful of solar powered repeaters will cover them and their comms needs.  HF has routinely closed the gap when that happens.  Just off of the top of my head.... in the USA alone ...

1.  1965 and 2003 East Coast blackouts
2.  2011 Hurricane Irene, which took down much of the East Coast infrastructure for up to two weeks
3.  2017 Puerto Rico in which Hurricane Irma and Maria simply blew away much of the electrical and comms infrastructure on the island.  ARRL was shipping emergency kits out to PR and quite a bit of health and welfare traffic over HF between mainland and PR families happened..

The list simply goes on.

And if you'd like the best option - try a modern satellite phone that supports data as well as voice (Thruaya, Inmarsat, Iridium, etc.).

VHF/UHF repeaters can help - but during weather disasters on the Atlantic and Gulf coasts they are often down, so point-to-point picks up the slack in many cases.

For local disasters, like the 1992 L.A. riots, VHF/UHF repeaters - especially those that interconnect with the phone system via patches, can be very useful.  I used one during that emergency to jump around overloaded/collapsed phone networks and into a working one to contact my XYL on her cellphone.  She and her staff then moved out of the direct path of rioters, just in time.

Glad to hear you've never been involved in a broad area emergency, or just a local area one requiring a phone patch.  It's no fun at all worrying about loved ones in the path of destruction or trying to contact relatives outside (or inside) the weather area via HF and friendly hams just to say you're "OK" and to see if they are, too.  I'm happy my own personal experience has never gone beyond that point.

Brian - K6BRN
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WB8VLC

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Re: Best way to communicate if internet down nation-wide.
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2022, 11:06:40 AM »

carrier pidgeons
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