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Author Topic: Bad Luck with SS Vintage Radios  (Read 1631 times)

WA2CWA

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    • ManualMan
Re: Bad Luck with SS Vintage Radios
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2022, 11:23:08 AM »

Man, I got to go check all my rigs to make sure I don't have "over-volts".   8) 8) 8)
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N8YX

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Re: Bad Luck with SS Vintage Radios
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2022, 11:42:08 AM »

I currently own a number of hybrids; some multiples: TS-820S, TS-830S, TS-530SP, FT-102, FT-901/902. The only routinely problematic ones of the lot are the '820 (both transceiver and receiver); the edge connectors used to interface counter, PLL/VCO and other units together occasionally exhibit random wonkiness. The fix is DeOxit or replacement, as some of the solder joints on the headers go intermittent. If possible, replace with gold-plated equivalents.

That said, I put many thousands of hours on my first TS-820S/R-820 pair. The only things I ever needed to replace or service in either had filaments.

Likewise with the rest. Most of this gear will probably outlast me, and with luck I've 30+ years to go.
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N8YX

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Re: Bad Luck with SS Vintage Radios
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2022, 11:46:12 AM »

Man, I got to go check all my rigs to make sure I don't have "over-volts".   8) 8) 8)
Using the rig into an antenna/feedline of the correct impedance and not expecting the Pi network to match a 5000-ohm load will go a long way to minimizing any problems in the PA, but I'm preaching to the choir.
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N1RND

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Re: Bad Luck with SS Vintage Radios
« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2022, 08:18:50 AM »

Around 1979 I was a wet behind the ears novice.  Not knowing how to safely tune tube  PA stages I shorted one of the  6146's and it did alot of upstream damage, cost a third of the price of the rig to get it fixed
Few years ago I got a mint Icom IC-765 cheap because it did not work.  A few cold solder joints fixed and a relay replaced and it works again.
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AC2EU

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    • McVey Electronics
Re: Bad Luck with SS Vintage Radios
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2022, 08:30:36 AM »

Around 1979 I was a wet behind the ears novice.  Not knowing how to safely tune tube  PA stages I shorted one of the  6146's and it did alot of upstream damage, cost a third of the price of the rig to get it fixed
Few years ago I got a mint Icom IC-765 cheap because it did not work.  A few cold solder joints fixed and a relay replaced and it works again.

I'm quite fascinated about these reports of "massive damage". There is never any specificity about WHAT got so irreparably damaged!
This is beginning to take on an "urban legend" type anecdote.
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N8YX

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Re: Bad Luck with SS Vintage Radios
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2022, 10:23:03 AM »

Around 1979 I was a wet behind the ears novice.  Not knowing how to safely tune tube  PA stages I shorted one of the  6146's and it did alot of upstream damage, cost a third of the price of the rig to get it fixed
Few years ago I got a mint Icom IC-765 cheap because it did not work.  A few cold solder joints fixed and a relay replaced and it works again.

I'm quite fascinated about these reports of "massive damage". There is never any specificity about WHAT got so irreparably damaged!
This is beginning to take on an "urban legend" type anecdote.
.
Likewise.

Which radio, and what was damaged? Unless the power transformer or the digital readout circuitry were affected, little else in ANY hybrid I've ever repaired would rack up a major servicing dollar figure. Unless someone was charging a lot for labor, that is.
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N1RND

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Re: Bad Luck with SS Vintage Radios
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2022, 01:16:17 PM »

FYI
I repaired the Icom myself. Not bad for $300.
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WA2CWA

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    • ManualMan
Re: Bad Luck with SS Vintage Radios
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2022, 01:57:31 PM »

Man, I got to go check all my rigs to make sure I don't have "over-volts".   8) 8) 8)
Using the rig into an antenna/feedline of the correct impedance and not expecting the Pi network to match a 5000-ohm load will go a long way to minimizing any problems in the PA, but I'm preaching to the choir.
True, but the Pi network is fairly versatile in impedance matching so I would suspect the TS-830S Pi network on some bands might handle variations (non major)  from the typical specified impedance range.

My first Novice rig transmitter was a homebrew 6146 in the final with a Pi network output. Station was in my bedroom. Connected a single wire from the transmitter output to the metal bed spring with a clip lead. Had no idea what the impedance was and just tuned up for maximum brilliance of a neon bulb laying on top of the mattress. No ground connection on anything. Worked great  ;D for someone who wasn't sure what they were doing.

Pete, wa2cwa
www.manualman.com
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WA2CWA

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    • ManualMan
Re: Bad Luck with SS Vintage Radios
« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2022, 02:09:03 PM »

I'm quite fascinated about these reports of "massive damage". There is never any specificity about WHAT got so irreparably damaged!
This is beginning to take on an "urban legend" type anecdote.
.

Yep! I agree. We need explanations!  ;D

I bought a used vintage tube HT-37 transmitter at the hamfest many years ago. Worked great until it heated up and developed a horrible smell. Turns out previous owner had a cat that like to lay on top of the HT-37 and surmised that most likely the cat urinated into the HT-37. Never could get rid of the smell.
So I sold it with the added feature of "sensory enhancement".

Pete, wa2cwa
www.manualman.com
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K6JH

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Re: Bad Luck with SS Vintage Radios
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2022, 07:10:19 PM »

I'm quite fascinated about these reports of "massive damage". There is never any specificity about WHAT got so irreparably damaged!
This is beginning to take on an "urban legend" type anecdote.
.

Yep! I agree. We need explanations!  ;D

I bought a used vintage tube HT-37 transmitter at the hamfest many years ago. Worked great until it heated up and developed a horrible smell. Turns out previous owner had a cat that like to lay on top of the HT-37 and surmised that most likely the cat urinated into the HT-37. Never could get rid of the smell.
So I sold it with the added feature of "sensory enhancement".

Pete, wa2cwa
www.manualman.com

Hah! I’ve got a friend who lost a TS-700 to his Siamese cat urinating on it. He said the corrosion ate up everything.
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73
Jim K6JH

K2TGI

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Re: Bad Luck with SS Vintage Radios
« Reply #40 on: June 05, 2022, 04:24:00 AM »

try here https://www.oldradioparts.net/caps_lytic.html good prices , fast delivery, we use them quite frequenly for shop repairs, Hal K2TGI
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K4KYV

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Re: Bad Luck with SS Vintage Radios
« Reply #41 on: June 07, 2022, 02:41:53 PM »

I agree, about 20 years life for SS. Tube gear lasts far longer, perhaps 90 years with electrolytic capacitor upgrade.

Isn't it ironic that it is often easier to find satisfactory replacements for tubes and other components in equipment dating back as early as the 1930s (or even 1920s), than to find replacement semiconductors for solid state equipment made only a decade or two ago?

« Last Edit: June 07, 2022, 02:46:50 PM by K4KYV »
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N8YX

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Re: Bad Luck with SS Vintage Radios
« Reply #42 on: June 09, 2022, 06:49:45 AM »

I agree, about 20 years life for SS. Tube gear lasts far longer, perhaps 90 years with electrolytic capacitor upgrade.

Isn't it ironic that it is often easier to find satisfactory replacements for tubes and other components in equipment dating back as early as the 1930s (or even 1920s), than to find replacement semiconductors for solid state equipment made only a decade or two ago?
Ham gear has now become a commodity, like almost all electronics equipment. To that end, ease of service is a secondary design concern. Further, engineers will design for a reasonable MTBF (based on an average usage cycle) and spec components accordingly.

There are those of us who run our gear far more often than the weekend ham, and a 24x7 operating regime (for a dedicated receiver or repeater, as an example) is going to result in accelerated drop-outs of contemporary consumer-quality equipment. The manufacturer's approach is for you to buy the next (upgraded) model.

Etc.

On the other hand, my Yaesu FT-90x, Drake 7 lines and JRC 515 stuff looks like it'll outlast most people I talk to on the air - regardless of how often I use it.
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WA6III

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Re: Bad Luck with SS Vintage Radios
« Reply #43 on: June 15, 2022, 09:09:59 AM »


Quote
Ham gear has now become a commodity, like almost all electronics equipment. To that end, ease of service is a secondary design concern. Further, engineers will design for a reasonable MTBF (based on an average usage cycle) and spec components accordingly.

There are those of us who run our gear far more often than the weekend ham, and a 24x7 operating regime (for a dedicated receiver or repeater, as an example) is going to result in accelerated drop-outs of contemporary consumer-quality equipment. The manufacturer's approach is for you to buy the next (upgraded) model.

Etc.

On the other hand, my Yaesu FT-90x, Drake 7 lines and JRC 515 stuff looks like it'll outlast most people I talk to on the air - regardless of how often I use it.

I have a complete Drake C-Line that I bought new(1975) and only just last year replaced the 2 6JB6 final tubes.

I've also got older 60's Hallicrafters gear including an original (1957) HT33 amp (pair of 4CX300A) All I have have done is replace electrolytics and a few other parts to keep it all operating.

If you need high MTBF equipment get a Motorola Micom series.  I have a Micom-3T  that Motorola advertised as having a 50,000 hr MTBF.  You can put  it out on the drive way and drive over it and then pressure wash it and it'll keep trucking on. 

But I am thinking most hams don't need radios that will outlast them unless they want their heirs to have them.

(hint: most "heirs" don't care, don't want them and some will either give it all away or just haul it all to the dump!!)
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W9MT

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Re: Bad Luck with SS Vintage Radios
« Reply #44 on: June 30, 2022, 07:03:01 AM »

I have to re-state the obvious applicable maxim to everything I've read in this thread: "Your mileage may vary".

I've owned a Gonset GSB-101 amp (the one matching their GSB-100 ssb transmitter, and containing the very popular four 811A's in grounded grid configuration). Until I changed out the electrolytics a couple of years ago, it still had the originals from 1958 running in it without problems. I still have those caps.

Some newer gear is "snake-bit" from the get-go, like the Yaesu FT-100 mobile hf radio with all of its grounding and weird RF problems. The later "D" version and the current FT-891 are much better radios with excellent functionality and longevity. Yaesu learned from its design errors of the past, but early adopter hams were stuck holding a "bag" of "you know what". (No buy back program or discount for a trade in of a carcass.)

I bought an IC-706Mk2G brand new at Dayton in 2000 and used it without problems for the quoted "20 year period". Then it developed an 80m-only band relay chatter after attempting to transmit after an hour's warm up. I tried to fix that problem and made things worse (no xmit at all) and sold the radio for parts.

(YES, that "20 year lifetime" estimate is prescient!!!)

Yet I bought a Mk2, no "G" version as a parts radio in 2015 and managed to bring it back to full functionality, working on it evenings for a couple of months. It still works and I like it a lot. But I learned a few things by both experiences...

Parts going obsolete are your worst enemy. The G radio had one or two relays bad on its BPF board. They went obsolete and NLA (I looked really hard for some) back in 2019. This was 2022. I had equivalent relays from my non-G radio, but they were same spec's with different manufacturer and different footprint. I cross-wired one of these into the space where the suspect relay was. I'm betting it worked, but since all bands now were dead on PTT transmit, I think I fractured an internal runner in a flex cable. I got tired of the fight and gave up.

...and YES, aftermarket relays were available for the non-G radio, but not ones for the "newer" G model's BPF board. Remember, you have no control over "what gets obsoleted when". This can make a newer SS radio into the "prettiest car in the junkyard" well before an earlier vintage SS radio. Parts availability timing is real crapshoot.

When the non-G decides to eventually poop-out, it will be sold for parts like its younger predecessor.

The fire in that Japanese mixed mode custom IC plant in October of 2020 made a lot of service parts into "unobtainium". This is why Kenwood discontinued the TH-D74A talkie, Icom its ID-51A and 31A, and Yaesu its FT-3D's. I really like my Kenwood, but if it ever dies, I will not try to revive it. I'll just buy the current manifestation, if not from "brand K", then from someone else. It's also why high end hf radios like Kenwood's TS-990SAT were recently obsolteted. (Kenwood wanted to keep their cache of NLA parts inventory to cover warranty returns, and not use them up in ongoing manufacturing of a low volume model.)

The smaller, discrete semiconductors usually get obsoleted by Icom after about 7 years. I was only able to get the non-G 706 going again by sourcing Chinese parts from Amazon and eBay. If it was the main uP in the radio, I'd be screwed royally with owning a cosmetically nice door stop. Old boat anchors don't have this problem. Most of their parts (including power transformers) can be Frankensteined from other equipment or substitutions made and shoehorned in. It may not be pretty, but a lot of sins disappear once the cabinet is put back on.

Don't even get me started on SMT. I worked with it a lot in my former engineering career and know what I'm doing, but it's very true that ham equipment was built like consumer electronics. I'd swear that I would just "show my soldering iron" to some radios from a distance and their pcb runners would start to curl or float away. Boat anchors never had this problem, but their technology (albeit fun to work with from a nostalgic point of view) is not what I'd want for my "daily driver" rig. Many of their pcb's won't survive more than one repair cycle, no matter how good the tech you are.

So, unless your problem lies with obsolete, NLA parts...really no radio is "unrepairable". It's just a question of how much time and money one wants to expend to get "the old girl running again". If it pleases you, then do it...but know when you need to give up before your widow needs to send it to the "great ham radio equipment landfill".

Resurrecting dead gear, whether old or new, is a fun ham radio sandbox in which to play...but when it ceases being rewarding, you have to know when to quit...and move on.
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