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Author Topic: Any thoughts on the future of vacuum tube supplies?  (Read 777 times)

W2EAF

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Any thoughts on the future of vacuum tube supplies?
« on: March 27, 2022, 02:00:58 PM »

With the current inasnity of the Ukraine/Russia war (and I am by no means being political or trivializing the suffering of millions of people by bringing this up) I have noticed people seem to be hoarding tubes the way they did with toilet paper a couple of years ago. 6L6, 6V6,7025 12AX7 etc are out of stock everywhere now it seems, and the few you come across are incredibly expensive.

Rob W2EAF
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W7CXC

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Re: Any thoughts on the future of vacuum tube supplies?
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2022, 02:54:37 PM »

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3-500ZG tube manufacturer?
« on: March 25, 2022, 04:12:07 PM »

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I just saw a report where Shuguang tube factory in China has shut down. RF Parts gets 3-500ZG's from China. I hope they don't get them from Shuguang, or I need to run out and buy a couple of spares. The article also states Western Electric USA in Georgia is expanding their tube manufacturing and is asking for recommendations on which tubes they should make. They are mainly a hi end audio / stereo amplifier tube maker but maybe they are unaware of how many hams are still around wanting glass tubes. Contact them and let them know what tubes you would like to see manufactured here. For me, the 3-500zg would be very nice. You can look up their contact info on Google or most any search engine.

Todd - KT0DD
 
This was posted on the Amp heading a few days ago. Thought it might be of interest. 73's
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K0UA

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Re: Any thoughts on the future of vacuum tube supplies?
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2022, 02:58:21 PM »

You want thoughts?  Here are my thoughts.  Time to put away our childish things and move on in life. Receiving tubes were obsolete 50 years ago. And power transmitting tubes at least 20 years ago. Why not move on and forget about them? Leave them for the ones that cannot let go. Those are my thoughts. Boat anchors?  Well we do have boats, and they will need anchors.  ;D  Now that we have that settled.  ;)
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73  James K0UA

K4GTE

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Re: Any thoughts on the future of vacuum tube supplies?
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2022, 03:22:50 PM »

Tubes will get scarce, and more expensive when you can find them. Russia and China sanctions seem to be the new normal. My tube equipment will be display only, all my operating equipment will be solid state.
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W7CXC

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Re: Any thoughts on the future of vacuum tube supplies?
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2022, 03:38:42 PM »

While I have lots of respect and appreciation for differing opinions and have always valued them I have one of my own.

Just as there are folks who value, enjoy, appreciate and derive lots of fun and satisfaction from old cars ( classic cars, muscle cars ect) there are those of us that have an appreciation of older radio equipment. Perhaps even preserving a bit of history and the roots of Ham radio. Even owning and operating some of the latest and greatest (almost) solid state equipment does not rule out my deriving pride in keeping boat anchors up and operational. If the dreaded EMP ever happens, hope not, those of us with tube stuff may still be able to communicate or at least listen in for a while, if the power grid ever comes back, while we starve. 

Some comments, to me at least, are disrespectful.  Just as my saying that FT8 is a bunch of computers pinging each other and not real ham radio would be WERE I to express that statement. There is room for all of us in this hobby.  73's David
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K4PIH

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Re: Any thoughts on the future of vacuum tube supplies?
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2022, 03:54:24 PM »

You want thoughts?  Here are my thoughts.  Time to put away our childish things and move on in life. Receiving tubes were obsolete 50 years ago. And power transmitting tubes at least 20 years ago. Why not move on and forget about them? Leave them for the ones that cannot let go. Those are my thoughts. Boat anchors?  Well we do have boats, and they will need anchors.  ;D  Now that we have that settled.  ;)
Spoken like a true credit card ham. Just a thought. ;)
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W2EAF

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Re: Any thoughts on the future of vacuum tube supplies?
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2022, 04:13:52 PM »

Well I knew the minute I posted my original comment there would be some smartass responses. I have plenty of modern equipment but I also enjoy the vintage stuff, as well as tube type HiFi, and would like to keep the stuff up and running, as well as building with tubes. W7CXC pointed out, there is room for all interests in ham radio.
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WA9AFM

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Re: Any thoughts on the future of vacuum tube supplies?
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2022, 04:23:58 PM »

Friend of mine (non-ham) is an super audiophile.  He will not have solid state equipment.  He firmly asserts 'hollow-ware' is returning in audio community.  There is a publication, the name escapes me, devoted to vacuum tube equipment from preamps straight thru to power amps and tuners.  However, the prices for that equipment are beyond the pale.
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K6AER

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Re: Any thoughts on the future of vacuum tube supplies?
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2022, 04:38:16 PM »

In the bang for the buck category you still cannot beat a tube amplifier.

They are 40% cheaper for the power out and their IMD number are typically 15 dB lower.

They don't suffer from the oppose-factor when you transmit into an open or short.

The Chinese FU728F triode is in my opinion is indestructible and cost about $400 to replace.

Low pass filters are not needed for the Pi network reduces the harmonics just fine.

Tube amps can tune into other than a perfect 50 ohm load.

« Last Edit: March 27, 2022, 04:45:26 PM by K6AER »
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W9FIB

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Re: Any thoughts on the future of vacuum tube supplies?
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2022, 06:04:17 PM »

Just as there are folks who value, enjoy, appreciate and derive lots of fun and satisfaction from old cars ( classic cars, muscle cars ect) there are those of us that have an appreciation of older radio equipment.

But most classic cars still have many of their parts either new or used available all over. Tubes are not. And unless we can get a country besides China and Russia to produce quality tubes, the prices will increase dramatically as shelf stock gets used up. Yet I can get a new fender for a 66 Chevy C-30 from numerous competitive supply houses at reasonable prices. A $40 fender 10 years ago is now $60. Some $100 tubes are now over $1000. There in is the difference.

You want thoughts?  Here are my thoughts.  Time to put away our childish things and move on in life. Receiving tubes were obsolete 50 years ago. And power transmitting tubes at least 20 years ago. Why not move on and forget about them? Leave them for the ones that cannot let go. Those are my thoughts. Boat anchors?  Well we do have boats, and they will need anchors.  ;D  Now that we have that settled.  ;)

Absolutely! Best said statement I have seen about tubes.
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73, Stan
Travelling the world one signal at a time.

K0UA

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Re: Any thoughts on the future of vacuum tube supplies?
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2022, 06:31:07 PM »

Well I knew the minute I posted my original comment there would be some smartass responses. I have plenty of modern equipment but I also enjoy the vintage stuff, as well as tube type HiFi, and would like to keep the stuff up and running, as well as building with tubes. W7CXC pointed out, there is room for all interests in ham radio.

Well, you asked for thoughts, AND those are my true thoughts. I may be a smartass, but would you rather I make up how I feel about this? I grew up working on tube type stuff, radios, TV's and all of that. There were some solid state and some hybrid TV's when I started working in the repair shops as a kid So I know my way around a CTC-25 RCA chassis. And I sure worked on a lot of those Zenith point to point wired jobs. But I don't miss them in any way shape form or fashion. I don't miss the tube type rigs I used to own, I don't miss the hybrid rigs I used to own, and I don't miss the old solid state rigs I used to own. The oldest rig in my shack is from 2016, and YES it is getting a bit long in the tooth.  ;D  So if that makes me a smartass and a credit card ham so be it.  So I told you what I really think about tubes. I think it is time to move on.  YMMV.  :)
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73  James K0UA

KB1NO

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Re: Any thoughts on the future of vacuum tube supplies?
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2022, 08:08:04 PM »

I'm in the "to each, his own" camp.   If you have vacuum tube equipment,  appreciate the advantages, and are willing to pay the price of a device with limited sources, go for it!   I own vacuum tube equipment and enjoy using it sometimes,  but mostly I use solid state gear. 
I do believe it's encouraging that Western Electric is soliciting inputs on what they should build at their plant in Georgia.
Looks like 300B so far.  So let's give them our wish list.    811As, 572Bs, 3-500Z, etc, etc.
https://www.westernelectric.com/news

73,
John, KB1NO
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N8FVJ

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Re: Any thoughts on the future of vacuum tube supplies?
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2022, 08:09:13 PM »

The 3-500Z was never built by Shanguang. It is built by a Chinese company that normally builds high power radio station tubes. I forgot the company name, but never read it anywhere else on the forums.
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VK6HP

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Re: Any thoughts on the future of vacuum tube supplies?
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2022, 08:44:03 PM »

Well I knew the minute I posted my original comment there would be some smartass responses. I have plenty of modern equipment but I also enjoy the vintage stuff, as well as tube type HiFi, and would like to keep the stuff up and running, as well as building with tubes. W7CXC pointed out, there is room for all interests in ham radio.

Rob,

I got the sense of your original question and shake my head in amazement at the nitwits who want to seize the smallest opportunity to sow division, over nearly anything.  Indeed there is room for many simultaneous interests and, just looking at my own bench today (for example), I have the Collins 32S-3 transmitter alignment being tweaked, a new silicon carbide FET class E LF amplifier under test, and a breakout box for the TS-890S under construction.  That Collins is a terrible bit of gear, by the way: only 55 years of continuous service and still the lowest IMD exciter in town excepting the still-rare pre-distortion systems.

On your substantive question, I don't have any real answers except to note that local keen collectors here run a valve (tube) library and, far from price gouging, I've been the recipient and giver of free tubes in various groups.  We all rely ultimately on the commercial world for fresh stock but, from an individual's viewpoint, my best experience has come from alliances with other like-minded people.

73, Peter.
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G3RZP

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Re: Any thoughts on the future of vacuum tube supplies?
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2022, 04:47:13 AM »

Quote
Low pass filters are not needed for the Pi network reduces the harmonics just fine.

I'll accept as a 'maybe' that statement for Pi-L output tuned circuits. Plus in the US, standards are less stringent than elsewhere (-43dB as opposed to  -43 +10logP without needing to be greater -50 dB for equipment operating below 30MHz. (why the FCC and NTIA signed up to the international Radio Regulations and then ignored the numbers they signed up to when they made the rules is beyond me) But even getting -43dB with a straight pi can be difficult: the second harmonic anode current from a Class AB stage is only 6dB below the fundamental.
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