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Author Topic: New Yaesu FT-710  (Read 2776 times)

K0UA

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Re: New Yaesu FT-710
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2022, 10:34:14 AM »

Is this going to be a direct sampling radio, or a hybred design like the FTDX10, where roofing filters are still used?  Nothing from what I can see clearly suggests one or the other yet.

73 John AF5CC

The story is that it is an SDR like the 7300.

There will not be a 50 watt or 10 watt model for sale here in the USA it is the 100 watt only.

This is NOT a replacement for the FTDX10 at all. This is one step below the FTDX10 as the Yaesu guys said you had your 5000, (FT101D or MP) the FT3000 (FTDX10) and your FT1200 (this rig fits this niche).

And by the way for the guys thinking that this has a foldup display on top or something.. noooo..  That is a display you would have to provide and it will be driven by DVI  ....NOT HDMI.

This is obviously meant to compete head to head with the 7300, and while we do not know the price yet, I bet it will be in the 7300 ballpark.   
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73  James K0UA

N5PG

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Re: New Yaesu FT-710
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2022, 01:45:53 PM »

Yaesu sez it’s not intended as a replacement for anything but is roughly on the level of the FT-1200.

HRO taking deposits.
 https://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-011779&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=picture&utm_campaign=ft710res&utm_content=070722
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AF5CC

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Re: New Yaesu FT-710
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2022, 07:33:00 PM »

So it is direct sampling, correct?  The FTDX10 and FTDX101 are both SDR radios, as I understand it, but still use roofing filters and a hybred superhet design.

73 John AF5CC
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N2DTS

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Re: New Yaesu FT-710
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2022, 10:52:30 AM »

The 101 and 10 are not direct sampling radios.
The 7300 is from what I recall.
Both are sdr radios.
Sdr seems to be blending into DSP radios.....

So it is direct sampling, correct?  The FTDX10 and FTDX101 are both SDR radios, as I understand it, but still use roofing filters and a hybred superhet design.

73 John AF5CC
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VE3WGO

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« Last Edit: July 13, 2022, 09:32:07 AM by VE3WGO »
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KD7RDZI2

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Re: FT-710 Announced details on Yaesu's web page
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2022, 02:34:57 PM »

now the FT-710 description is on the Yaesu web page.

https://www.yaesu.com/indexVS.cfm?cmd=DisplayProducts&ProdCatID=102&encProdID=615ADFEAB5EDBC65EBE1D64835F209DB&DivisionID=65&isArchived=0

73, Ed
It says it uses a DDS, thus I guess the architecture should be not be 7300 like. Enjoy your menu ;D
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N2DTS

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Re: New Yaesu FT-710
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2022, 05:27:05 PM »

That is just the clock (LO).
The 101 and 10 are downconverted then sampled, they can filter out a lot of RF that would overload the A/D converter, and its easier to use cheaper hardware to process the more limited bandwidth.
Plus they can switch in band pass filters which helps a lot.

Direct sampling means the A/D converter looks at the entire spectrum, say 100KHz to 70 MHz and then processes the data to give what you want.
Flex and Anan do that, and you can have a number of slices open on different bands at the same time.
The A/D is wide open and subject to all the RF within the 100 KHz to 70 MHz and strong signals can cause issues.
That is why the new K4and 7300 are not as good at rejecting very strong signals as the 101 and 10 are.
Elecraft plans to sell a superhet front end of the K4 in the future.

At least, that is how I understand the new Yaesu radios.

SDR does not mean direct sampling.
Radios like the New Yaesu's are sort of a superhet front end and a dsp chip to process the digital stuff.



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N2DTS

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Re: New Yaesu FT-710
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2022, 09:21:37 PM »

I see the 101 uses a 18 bit A/D converter, seems like something new in Ham radio.
9 MHz is the IF in that radio, with a direct sampling setup for the display (only).

Maybe the 710 will use a 16 bit A/D converter to keep the price down?

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N6YWU

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Re: New Yaesu FT-710
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2022, 11:24:52 AM »

SDR does not mean direct sampling.
Correct.  Direct sampling, superhets, and direct conversion rigs all can be SDRs.   If the software is implementing part of the RF physical layer (not just DSP processing the already analog demodulated receive audio), then, according to the IEEE definition, it's an SDR.
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KD7RDZI2

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Re: New Yaesu FT-710
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2022, 12:56:32 PM »

SDR does not mean direct sampling.
Correct.  Direct sampling, superhets, and direct conversion rigs all can be SDRs.   If the software is implementing part of the RF physical layer (not just DSP processing the already analog demodulated receive audio), then, according to the IEEE definition, it's an SDR.
Can a boatanchor with IF buffer stage and downconverter to >=16 bit soundcard be considered SDR according to the IEEE definition?
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VE3WGO

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Re: New Yaesu FT-710
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2022, 05:04:21 PM »

yes.

Wikipedia has a very interesting and well-written article on the subject of Software-defined radio, with a lot of historical background on the road to SDR.  And in 1992 Joe Mitola published a paper describing an aspects of the first E-Systems prototype for the US Military, calling it a "Software Radio", which was the IEEE's first publication using that term.

The article starts out by answering your question directly:

"A basic SDR system may consist of a personal computer equipped with a sound card, or other analog-to-digital converter, preceded by some form of RF front end. Significant amounts of signal processing are handed over to the general-purpose processor, rather than being done in special-purpose hardware (electronic circuits). Such a design produces a radio which can receive and transmit widely different radio protocols (sometimes referred to as waveforms) based solely on the software used. "

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software-defined_radio

Coincidentally, my job at Nortel at the time involved working on the first 2G (AMPS/TDMA) digital cellular software-defined radio product which was first deployed in Canada in 1992.

73, Ed

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G8FXC

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Re: New Yaesu FT-710
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2022, 03:44:37 AM »

I see the 101 uses a 18 bit A/D converter, seems like something new in Ham radio.
9 MHz is the IF in that radio, with a direct sampling setup for the display (only).

Maybe the 710 will use a 16 bit A/D converter to keep the price down?

I think the point about the Yaesu hybrid designs is that they can keep the price down without having to compromise D/A resolution. They digitise and process at IF frequencies (and it is a pretty low frequency IF) which means that they can use low-cost components - they are working at frequecies that your dog could hear if you hooked the IF up to a good speaker! They do have direct sampling for the panadaptor, but that is just driving a low resolution display and they can get away with far lower resolution devices for that.

ICOM, direct sampling and SDR processing all the way up to 70MHz, need far more expensive components.

Martin (G8FXC)
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N6YWU

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Re: New Yaesu FT-710
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2022, 09:03:05 AM »

SDR does not mean direct sampling.
Correct.  Direct sampling, superhets, and direct conversion rigs all can be SDRs.   If the software is implementing part of the RF physical layer (not just DSP processing the already analog demodulated receive audio), then, according to the IEEE definition, it's an SDR.
Can a boatanchor with IF buffer stage and downconverter to >=16 bit soundcard be considered SDR according to the IEEE definition?

IIRC, one of the first amateur radio SDRs from the mid-90's was a Kenwood model, where the radio's speaker could reproduce sound maybe up to 10 kHz, but the software demodulated samples from an IF of 11 kHz... so it could be called an SDR, instead of an analog radio with an added audio DSP.  (Maybe 11 kHz is an IF frequency for old guys, but it's audio for a dog.)

This is still being done.  My mcHF QRP SDR transceiver uses an IF of 12 kHz.

Other Tayloe design direct conversion SDR receivers use an IF of 0 Hz, but producing IQ samples, thus allowing software to filter and demodulate "negative" complex IQ frequencies below the 0 Hz baseband, thus working on samples that are not yet completely demodulated in analog hardware.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2022, 09:13:56 AM by N6YWU »
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KH6AQ

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Re: New Yaesu FT-710
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2022, 04:10:37 PM »

Is this going to be a direct sampling radio, or a hybred design like the FTDX10, where roofing filters are still used?  Nothing from what I can see clearly suggests one or the other yet.

73 John AF5CC

The FT-710 AESS is an SDR (like the IC-7300) and not a hybrid SDR like the FTdx-10. It does not have narrow roofing filters like the FTdx-10 but does have amateur band bandpass filters. An important feature the FT-710 AESS for me is CW APF.

https://www.yaesu.com/indexVS.cfm?cmd=DisplayProducts&ProdCatID=102&encProdID=615ADFEAB5EDBC65EBE1D64835F209DB&DivisionID=65&isArchived=0
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AE5X

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Re: New Yaesu FT-710
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2022, 04:49:25 AM »

What I'd really like to see, is something along the lines of an FT-891 but will 2m and 70cm bands, all mode added.
Sort of like an updated FT-857D, but with the IF DSP.

Exactly. The immense popularity of POTA certainly would seem to justify such a rig: small, coverage up to 70cm and not QRP.
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