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Author Topic: Audio output DSPs and Parametric EQ speech enhancement  (Read 500 times)

K7JQ

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Re: Audio output DSPs and Parametric EQ speech enhancement
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2022, 12:54:32 PM »


I'm considering either the CLRdsp or the Xiegu GBR-1, which is a newer version, but fewer reviews.  They are both about the same price.

I Googled and just watched the YouTube video from Waters and Stanton demonstrating the Xiegu GNR-1. Having extensively been using the CLRdsp, I can offer you my opinion, not wanting to sway you one way or the other ;).

Ergonomically, the GNR-1 has smaller control knobs...might be difficult if you have chunky fingers.  Their NR knob is the same as the FILTER knob on the CLRdsp. The L and H bandpass knobs can be somewhat similar to the CLRdsp one TONE control, although maybe giving you a little more adjustable/flexible parameters. The INPUT control to keep the unit from clipping is really not needed at all, as just adjusting the radio's AF gain control will do the same thing by setting (and forgetting) it to avoid clipping, and just using the GNR-1 OUTPUT control for volume. So, technically the GNR-1 basically has two unneeded controls...INPUT and either L or H whereby the DLRdsp has the TONE control to cover both of those. Personally, when adjusting things on the fly, the less knobs to fiddle with, the better.

Performance-wise, the GNR-1 does a nice job of eliminating noise with the NR control, but very similar to how the CLRdsp performs/sounds. I did notice that the reviewer always increased the OUTPUT (volume) knob as he simultaneously increased the NR knob. It indicates to me that increasing the NR level will also decrease the volume (like my 7300 NR control does), something that the CLRdsp does not do...the voice/CW volume remains the same as the noise level is reduced. Both units seem to not have "under water" sounding artifacts, as the levels are increased.

Something the reviewer did not do was switch between transmit and receive, to see if it produces that initial "whoosh" (that I described in my post above) while the algorithm samples/adapts to the noise and reduces it. Would have been a good demo. Again, with 7300's NR in tandem, it's not as noticeable.

This was the first I heard of the Xiegu, and it seems to be a decent performer. The CLRdsp is made in the U.S, and has a one year warranty. It can also have software updates if you send it in to WMR. Don't know about the Xiegu.

Hope my comments help, sticking with your desire to only consider NR  units *after* the audio chain into the speaker/headphones.

Bob K7JQ
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KK4GMU

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Re: Audio output DSPs and Parametric EQ speech enhancement
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2022, 01:55:51 PM »

Thanks, Bob!  Right on target for helpful review comments.

Sounds like the CLRdsp is the simpler unit to use and just as effective. 

I'll give this information a few days to percolate, and see if other reviews or options bubble up.

I read both manuals.  The Xiegu's seems half baked compared to the CLR.  I like the US manufacture and ability to update.  Good info!
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WA3SKN

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Re: Audio output DSPs and Parametric EQ speech enhancement
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2022, 02:23:51 PM »

The CLRdsp is a well built quality unit.

-Mike.
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K7JQ

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Re: Audio output DSPs and Parametric EQ speech enhancement
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2022, 02:39:39 PM »

The CLRdsp is a well built quality unit.

-Mike.

Yes...forgot to mention that. Steel cabinet enclosure and seems RF proof. I read somewhere that the BHI units are enclosed in a plastic case and complaint of RFI incursion. Glad to be of help.

Bob K7JQ
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KK4GMU

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Re: Audio output DSPs and Parametric EQ speech enhancement
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2022, 03:18:05 PM »

Quote
Yes...forgot to mention that. Steel cabinet enclosure and seems RF proof. I read somewhere that the BHI units are enclosed in a plastic case and complaint of RFI incursion.

Bob K7JQ
True, that.  BHI seems a bit like BMW vehicles.  Quality but a bit quirky.  After viewing a number of video reviews of each, the CLR seems at least as effective minus the isolation/RF issues I read about of the BHI and for less money.

And yes, I have read all the reviews for these major brands of Audio Filters of these major brands on https://www.eham.net/reviews/view-category?id=6   
Nothing on Xiegu yet.

If anyone has helpful reviews of these brands, please post.  I'm sure I have missed many.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2022, 03:20:25 PM by KK4GMU »
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KD6VXI

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Re: Audio output DSPs and Parametric EQ speech enhancement
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2022, 06:02:20 AM »

NVidia has a software solution that makes a world of difference, depending on the noise.  It's not going to make a ssb signal 30 db down in the noise sound like a concert hall.  But it has done some AMAZING things for voice for me.

The caveat, you have to have a certain series of video cards in your PC for it to work.

I didn't have one of the 20XX series cards, but found that I could edit the installer and get it to work on my GTX980.  Easy Peasy.

The difference it made was pretty amazing, to say the least.

You need lots of processing cores to get amazing results.

Of course, your mileage may vary and all the other disclaimers.  But it made an amazing difference to me.  This coupled with an MFJ1025 noise cancelling device gave me SSB operations with solar all around me.  And > S9 noise levels.

--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI
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WD5GWY

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Re: Audio output DSPs and Parametric EQ speech enhancement
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2022, 07:00:34 AM »

My experience with external DSP devices is limited to the Timewave 599zx DSP outboard filter.  I have found it to be very effective without coloring ( the watery sound) the received audio. Plus, it has an extremely effective Automatic Notch Filter.  I have even used it with my Flex 6600M because the ANF in SmartSDR is all but useless.
Using it with my non-DSP radios, I have found it made a big difference as it reduced background noise and hiss to a more tolerable level. 
Unfortunately, it is no longer in production. With my hearing problems the 599zx really helped.
James
WD5GWY

As others have mentioned,  the 599zx won't help with interference from outside sources.  But, strong background noise and hiss, it does a good job without distorting the audio.
They can be found used for around $150. And should it not help in your situation, easy to resell and get your money back.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2022, 07:14:45 AM by WD5GWY »
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KK4GMU

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Re: Audio output DSPs and Parametric EQ speech enhancement
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2022, 07:24:00 AM »

NVidia has a software solution that makes a world of difference, depending on the noise.  It's not going to make a ssb signal 30 db down in the noise sound like a concert hall.  But it has done some AMAZING things for voice for me.

The caveat, you have to have a certain series of video cards in your PC for it to work.
--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI
I just viewed a Youtube comparing the NVIDIA to Krisp, another software solution.  The NVIDIA requires a pricey sound card, while the the Krisp is an easier/cheaper implementation with a little bit thinner sound - but not an issue for ham radio audio frequency response.

As for me, I prefer sticking with the hardware solution - with easily accessible, tweakable knobs - to work around the buried controls in my 7100. 

Reminds me of a science fiction movie I saw when I was a kid - the scientists exclaimed when seeing the thing from outer space for the first time:  "Its got KNOBS!!!!"  I was excited about knobs ever since. ;D

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KK4GMU

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Re: Audio output DSPs and Parametric EQ speech enhancement
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2022, 07:38:25 AM »

My experience with external DSP devices is limited to the Timewave 599zx DSP outboard filter.  ... it does a good job without distorting the audio.
They can be found used for around $150. And should it not help in your situation, easy to resell and get your money back.
Yes, the 599 got great reviews - the reason it was on my list.  But since I am not a practiced electronics tech or diagnostician, I prefer to avoid the gamble with used equipment - not really having a good benchmark for how well it should work out of the box - with aging caps doing funny things and all.

From Timewave: 
Quote
"...when the DSP-599zx was designed in 1995-96, we looked forward and created a hardware and software architecture to carry us into the next millennium."

Used, I wouldn't know if I was getting a 27 year old or a 5 year old version.  If they were still made, it would certainly be a top 2 contender.
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K7JQ

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Re: Audio output DSPs and Parametric EQ speech enhancement
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2022, 08:02:41 AM »

Also forgot to mention that the CLRdsp will notch out heterodynes quickly, but will not affect its adaptation to the intermittent nature of CW signals.

The Timewave 599zx was a nice unit, but has many buttons and knobs to fiddle with. For me with the CLRdsp, got noise?…turn the Filter knob and it’s reduced/gone.
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KK4GMU

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Re: Audio output DSPs and Parametric EQ speech enhancement
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2022, 08:06:01 AM »

Also forgot to mention that the CLRdsp will notch out heterodynes quickly, but will not affect its adaptation to the intermittent nature of CW signals.

The Timewave 599zx was a nice unit, but has many buttons and knobs to fiddle with. For me with the CLRdsp, got noise?…turn the Filter knob and it’s reduced/gone.

...and, the USED Timewaves on eBay range from $400 to $525, plus shipping, and not really  knowing what you're going to get.  I'm sure they are available cheaper for an older one or if I searched a lot more.
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K7JQ

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Re: Audio output DSPs and Parametric EQ speech enhancement
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2022, 09:56:00 AM »

FYI:
A CLRdsp is posted for sale here on eham.net for $140, shipped. Purchased new from DXE 3/22, so it's the newest version. Heck, you can buy it and if you're not satisfied with its performance, you can always get your money back by selling it!
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KK4GMU

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Re: Audio output DSPs and Parametric EQ speech enhancement
« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2022, 09:58:53 AM »

I'm trying to like the BHI DSP with the parametric eq for $375 - ParaPro EQ20.  I like the parametric/dsp combination.
https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/bhd-eq20-dsp

But there are no decent video demos for it. They are of either the user randomly fiddling with the knobs not knowing or describing what they are doing or don't get any useful signal to do a meaningful A/B comparison.

If anyone has a good demo of this unit, please post.
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KK4GMU

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Re: Audio output DSPs and Parametric EQ speech enhancement
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2022, 12:09:24 PM »

FYI:
A CLRdsp is posted for sale here on eham.net for $140, shipped. Purchased new from DXE 3/22, so it's the newest version. Heck, you can buy it and if you're not satisfied with its performance, you can always get your money back by selling it!

Thanks!  I made contact with the seller.  I guess on Eham there is no "buy" button...you make arrangements through communications with the seller by email or whatever?
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K7JQ

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Re: Audio output DSPs and Parametric EQ speech enhancement
« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2022, 12:32:05 PM »

FYI:
A CLRdsp is posted for sale here on eham.net for $140, shipped. Purchased new from DXE 3/22, so it's the newest version. Heck, you can buy it and if you're not satisfied with its performance, you can always get your money back by selling it!

Thanks!  I made contact with the seller.  I guess on Eham there is no "buy" button...you make arrangements through communications with the seller by email or whatever?

Yes, on the ham radio website classifieds...eham.net, qrz.com, and qth.com...it's strictly  a personal sale from one individual to another. Email or phone call to ask questions and make arrangements for payment and shipping. Haggling for a better price is always possible. But be careful of possible scammers.
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