Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Yaesu's New FT710 might give the 7300 a run for the money?  (Read 1104 times)

K0UA

  • Member
  • Posts: 9589
Re: Yaesu's New FT710 might give the 7300 a run for the money?
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2022, 01:29:51 PM »

Oh, and yes the Ft891 ergonomics suck.  But you can get used to it. Sort of. And yes Icom ergonomics are GREAT!  So there is that. :)  But the 891's receiver and transmitter seem to perform well. I have made a heck of a lot of contacts with it in the mobile. It is a lousy digital rig, when I had it in the house, but out in the truck, that just isn't a problem.  I just wish it was easier to select bands, modes, and features, because that sucks.  :)
Logged
73  James K0UA

KX2T

  • Member
  • Posts: 1545
Re: Yaesu's New FT710 might give the 7300 a run for the money?
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2022, 05:52:03 AM »

There are more than a few Yaesu's that front panel layout suck, the menu systems unless you go over the manual over and over again. Having owned early on the FT1000MP which was a cryptic menu system that nobody liked but I got used to it fairly fast. Icom's menu systems have always been more simple type of human engineering type, easy peasey type menus' ever since the first 756 and the 746 radio's hit the market but the 7300 was by far the easy low rider in the group.
 What amazes me is that hams will buy a radio clearly by how the display looks vs how good the RX section is, its almost if its good enough in the rx section but has a pretty display with averaging they will go with that instead of the best RX but just look at the K3 group which clearly is an ugly baby in the crowd but sold a few years back like chocolate chips! 
Logged

K7JQ

  • Member
  • Posts: 2602
Re: Yaesu's New FT710 might give the 7300 a run for the money?
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2022, 10:01:56 AM »


 What amazes me is that hams will buy a radio clearly by how the display looks vs how good the RX section is, its almost if its good enough in the rx section but has a pretty display with averaging they will go with that instead of the best RX but just look at the K3 group which clearly is an ugly baby in the crowd but sold a few years back like chocolate chips!


Actually, nothing to be amazed about ;). Even Rob Sherwood says there are other factors to take into account when choosing the best radio for your needs, besides *the best* RX statistical numbers. The best numbers can be irrelevant to what the human ear can actually process.

I just looked at his list, and the Kenwood TS-590SG is # 29! Pretty good radio, huh? World-class contester N2IC uses a pair of them (actually, I think the "S" model, not the "SG"), and wins or places high in major contests. Do you really think that using the top-rated Yaesu radios would get him that many more Q's?

Let's get real. The RX performance differences between #1 and #29 (pretty impressive radios in between) to the human ear are marginal at best. Ergonomics, GUI, feature set, and price are most important when determining what radio will best suit your operating style/preferences.

Logged

K0UA

  • Member
  • Posts: 9589
Re: Yaesu's New FT710 might give the 7300 a run for the money?
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2022, 07:05:43 PM »


 What amazes me is that hams will buy a radio clearly by how the display looks vs how good the RX section is, its almost if its good enough in the rx section but has a pretty display with averaging they will go with that instead of the best RX but just look at the K3 group which clearly is an ugly baby in the crowd but sold a few years back like chocolate chips!


Actually, nothing to be amazed about ;). Even Rob Sherwood says there are other factors to take into account when choosing the best radio for your needs, besides *the best* RX statistical numbers. The best numbers can be irrelevant to what the human ear can actually process.

I just looked at his list, and the Kenwood TS-590SG is # 29! Pretty good radio, huh? World-class contester N2IC uses a pair of them (actually, I think the "S" model, not the "SG"), and wins or places high in major contests. Do you really think that using the top-rated Yaesu radios would get him that many more Q's?

Let's get real. The RX performance differences between #1 and #29 (pretty impressive radios in between) to the human ear are marginal at best. Ergonomics, GUI, feature set, and price are most important when determining what radio will best suit your operating style/preferences.

You do have a way of cutting to the chase in these matters don't you?  :)
Logged
73  James K0UA

K7JQ

  • Member
  • Posts: 2602
Re: Yaesu's New FT710 might give the 7300 a run for the money?
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2022, 05:37:09 AM »


 What amazes me is that hams will buy a radio clearly by how the display looks vs how good the RX section is, its almost if its good enough in the rx section but has a pretty display with averaging they will go with that instead of the best RX but just look at the K3 group which clearly is an ugly baby in the crowd but sold a few years back like chocolate chips!


Actually, nothing to be amazed about ;). Even Rob Sherwood says there are other factors to take into account when choosing the best radio for your needs, besides *the best* RX statistical numbers. The best numbers can be irrelevant to what the human ear can actually process.

I just looked at his list, and the Kenwood TS-590SG is # 29! Pretty good radio, huh? World-class contester N2IC uses a pair of them (actually, I think the "S" model, not the "SG"), and wins or places high in major contests. Do you really think that using the top-rated Yaesu radios would get him that many more Q's?

Let's get real. The RX performance differences between #1 and #29 (pretty impressive radios in between) to the human ear are marginal at best. Ergonomics, GUI, feature set, and price are most important when determining what radio will best suit your operating style/preferences.

You do have a way of cutting to the chase in these matters don't you?  :)

Ahhh…I just express my opinion and try to put things in perspective ;). Hams get so hung up on “the numbers”, and don’t take into consideration how a radio will work *for them* and their needs in the overall scheme of things. But, it’s a technical hobby, and the *purists* will always break things down to the ridiculous.

For example, James,  take that great Mercury IIIs amp you have. It just plain works, and you’re having a lot of fun with it. But there are the folks that say “it should have this and should have that”. And then there are the IMD guys that wax ad nauseum how dirty SS amps are. They just can’t pry their cold dead hands off their old faithful tube amps. Gimme a break.

People should stop complaining, do their due diligence, buy something, get on the air, and have fun on whatever mode that makes them happy.

Opinion from a grumpy 76 year old ham of 63 years ;).

Bob K7JQ
Logged

AF5CC

  • Posts: 1664
    • HomeURL
Re: Yaesu's New FT710 might give the 7300 a run for the money?
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2022, 01:52:20 PM »

Fit for a radio is subjective.  Numbers are objective.  For some, objective makes things easier.

73 John AF5CC
Logged

K7JQ

  • Member
  • Posts: 2602
Re: Yaesu's New FT710 might give the 7300 a run for the money?
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2022, 03:56:17 PM »

Fit for a radio is subjective.  Numbers are objective.  For some, objective makes things easier.

73 John AF5CC

And many times disappointing after the purchase, making it harder in the long run ;).
Logged

KX2T

  • Member
  • Posts: 1545
Re: Yaesu's New FT710 might give the 7300 a run for the money?
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2022, 02:24:57 PM »

Bob with the world class contest operators that place big scores in these contest its more the operator than the radio they use, most of those guys have a dsp built into there brains and never even touch the selectivity controls, actually they leave the bandwidth wider than most hams do in normal operating. There selectivity control is in there brains plus man many years of perfecting there operating skills, hell most of those op's can do the same even with a pair of TS930's or 1000MP's, they don't even care that much about how low the phase noise is but you will never see the same op's use a pair of 756Pro III's cause there front end filtering was never that selective. Second order IMD is the key element when deciding on two radio SO2R.
Logged

AF5CC

  • Posts: 1664
    • HomeURL
Re: Yaesu's New FT710 might give the 7300 a run for the money?
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2022, 02:45:50 PM »

Bob with the world class contest operators that place big scores in these contest its more the operator than the radio they use, most of those guys have a dsp built into there brains and never even touch the selectivity controls, actually they leave the bandwidth wider than most hams do in normal operating. There selectivity control is in there brains plus man many years of perfecting there operating skills, hell most of those op's can do the same even with a pair of TS930's or 1000MP's, they don't even care that much about how low the phase noise is but you will never see the same op's use a pair of 756Pro III's cause there front end filtering was never that selective. Second order IMD is the key element when deciding on two radio SO2R.

Yet the 756PROIII placed quite a bit higher on Sherwood's list than did the FT1000MP.  However  the FT1000MP was the contest to go rig for many years.  That should tell you something about selecting a rig based solely on numbers.

73 John AF5CC
Logged

K7JQ

  • Member
  • Posts: 2602
Re: Yaesu's New FT710 might give the 7300 a run for the money?
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2022, 04:11:19 PM »

Bob with the world class contest operators that place big scores in these contest its more the operator than the radio they use, most of those guys have a dsp built into there brains and never even touch the selectivity controls, actually they leave the bandwidth wider than most hams do in normal operating. There selectivity control is in there brains plus man many years of perfecting there operating skills, hell most of those op's can do the same even with a pair of TS930's or 1000MP's, they don't even care that much about how low the phase noise is but you will never see the same op's use a pair of 756Pro III's cause there front end filtering was never that selective. Second order IMD is the key element when deciding on two radio SO2R.

Yet the 756PROIII placed quite a bit higher on Sherwood's list than did the FT1000MP.  However  the FT1000MP was the contest to go rig for many years.  That should tell you something about selecting a rig based solely on numbers.

73 John AF5CC

James and John,

You both have valid points. James, Proper operation of SO2R requires quality BPF’s on each radio to reduce 2nd harmonic phase noise, especially running high power and close-in antennas. In that case, a radio’s front end filtering wouldn’t be much of an issue. And, of course, an operator that can handle different signals in each ear ;). I’ve been operating SO2R contesting for the last 4 years (CW only), and have a ways to go mastering it. N2IC also has the ability to do 2BSIQ. The ultimate in concentration. Yes, built-in DSP in their heads.

John, my point exactly. Back then, the FT-1000MP was the big dog, and Icom radios weren’t thought of so much in the contest circles.
Logged

K0UA

  • Member
  • Posts: 9589
Re: Yaesu's New FT710 might give the 7300 a run for the money?
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2022, 05:53:06 AM »

I used to have a 756 PRO3.  I could always tell when my neighbor ham was on the same band as I was. Then I traded it for a 7300.  I soon realized that I could not tell when he was on any more. Yes the 7300 was a better receiver than a 756 pro 3.
Logged
73  James K0UA

K7JQ

  • Member
  • Posts: 2602
Re: Yaesu's New FT710 might give the 7300 a run for the money?
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2022, 07:10:21 AM »

I used to have a 756 PRO3.  I could always tell when my neighbor ham was on the same band as I was. Then I traded it for a 7300.  I soon realized that I could not tell when he was on any more. Yes the 7300 was a better receiver than a 756 pro 3.

I also had a 756 PRO 3, then a 7600, and now two 7300’s. IMO, each step up resulted in better receive performance. I don’t experience the front end of the 7300 “crumbling” with nearby strong signals. I have several hams in my community within a mile from me. When they’re on the same band as me, their signal on the band scope peaks to the top of scale and the waterfall shows full red. But the OVF light remains off, even with the RF gain control at full scale. And I don’t get phase noise from them up/down the band.

The only time the OVF light flashes here is sometimes when operating SO2R, from the 2nd harmonic of the other radio operating a KW on the lower band. Reducing RF gain does the trick.
Logged

AF5CC

  • Posts: 1664
    • HomeURL
Re: Yaesu's New FT710 might give the 7300 a run for the money?
« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2022, 12:11:40 PM »

Yaesu probably won the contest market over Icom back then because they did dual receive better.  The FT1000 line of radios had a true second receiver in them.  The Icoms only did dual watch where you couldn't split the receive by ears, and were limited to both "receivers" being on the same mode and bandwidth.  Icom didn't come out with a true dual receive radio until the 7800.

Kenwood learned about this with the TS950S and quickly released the TS950SDX which fixed those issues.

73 John AF5CC
Logged

K7JQ

  • Member
  • Posts: 2602
Re: Yaesu's New FT710 might give the 7300 a run for the money?
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2022, 02:09:37 PM »

I never saw much value with Dual Watch...two signals simultaneously combined  in both ears, although many have found ways to use it efficiently. It always confused me, fiddling with the Balance control to make sense out of what I was hearing.

Today's two-receiver radios, for contesting, only lets you do SO2V...unable to transmit on one frequency while simultaneously receiving on another (only one transmitter in the radio). Separate signals in each ear. Having two 7300's lets me do true SO2R, allowing me to (transmit) work a station on one band with one radio in one ear, while simultaneously tuning around on the other searching for Q's and mults in the other ear. For me, a more efficient way of operating.

Logged

AF5CC

  • Posts: 1664
    • HomeURL
Re: Yaesu's New FT710 might give the 7300 a run for the money?
« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2022, 02:44:31 PM »

Yes, SO2R is more efficient, but brings a whole additional set of variables into the equation-bandpass filters and the like-that aren't needed with SO2V.  Dual watch was better than single receive.  It did help somewhat with breaking split frequency pileups, or if you wanted to sit on 2 different nets at the same time, as long as they were on the same band.  You could even go the next higher or lower band with some loss in sensitivity. 

I had a FT1000 for a while and it was especially useful in mixed mode contests.  You could tune around the SSB portion of the band looking for multipliers while waiting to get through to a CW station, etc.

73 John AF5CC
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up