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Author Topic: How to Identify Old Components with PCBs  (Read 522 times)

N9GIH

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How to Identify Old Components with PCBs
« on: July 26, 2022, 08:33:16 PM »

Recently found and dug into a couple of boxes of components I bought decades ago at Ham Fests, and I suspect that some of them contain PCBs and need to be safely disposed of as toxic waste.  However, I need some guidance for correctly identifying which ones contain PCBs.  Most of those that I suspect are things like line filters etc. in sealed metal cases.  Is there a resource (including pictures) for identifying what to carefully get rid of?  Appreciate any help or suggestions.
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G3RZP

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Re: How to Identify Old Components with PCBs
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2022, 03:12:03 AM »

The most likely candidates are transformers and chokes in sealed metal containers. There needs to be an air space to allow for expansion when the device gets hot, so you can often tel by carefully shaking the component and listen for the liquid 'sloshing' about inside. Most likely to be found in ex military gear.  The other possibilities are  old 'bathtub' capacitors, again used a lot in WW2 military gear. Small - say 2 by 1 inch - rectangular metal case devices with a number of paper capacitors inside. Frequently by now have leaked at the seals which were often fibreboard. Wear rubber or nitrile gloves when handling which need to be disposed with the capacitors. Old large paper high voltage metal can capacitors (>600V) are another possibility.
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W0RW

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Re: How to Identify Old Components with PCBs
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2022, 07:19:58 AM »

Here is some more technical PCB info.
https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/documents/pcbidmgmt.pdf
Paul   w0rw
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WA3CUJ

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Re: How to Identify Old Components with PCBs
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2022, 09:27:09 AM »

The only way to tell is by testing. If there is PCB the level will determine if it is classified as "PCB" or "PCB Contaminated". That will determine the disposal requirements. Good luck.
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K1VSK

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Re: How to Identify Old Components with PCBs
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2022, 09:48:59 AM »

The only way to tell is by testing. If there is PCB the level will determine if it is classified as "PCB" or "PCB Contaminated". That will determine the disposal requirements. Good luck.
Most of these components are filled with a dielectric oil. The shake test isnt definitive. As stated above, the only way to determine definitively whether it is PCB oil is by analytical testing.
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G3RZP

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Re: How to Identify Old Components with PCBs
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2022, 02:07:39 AM »

Age comes into it as well. Anything made after about 1970 is unlikely to have a PCB dielectric. Most of those old bathtub capacitors probably leak like a sieve on a voltage test anyhow.
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WA3CUJ

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Re: How to Identify Old Components with PCBs
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2022, 05:53:47 AM »

Age comes into it as well. Anything made after about 1970 is unlikely to have a PCB dielectric. Most of those old bathtub capacitors probably leak like a sieve on a voltage test anyhow.
In the United States, power transformers were still being manufactured with PCB dielectric oil, as late as mid-1979. I do not know if there was action taken on items outside of the utility industry prior to that.
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KM4AH

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Re: How to Identify Old Components with PCBs
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2022, 02:54:40 PM »

Good friend of mine worked for a company that dealt with toxic waste. PCB's certainly aren't good for you, but the media sort of latched on to it. There are a lot of worse things out there that never got media attention.

If you have something that is working properly with PCB oil, leave it alone. 
If it starts leaking, burn it. That is exactly what will happen to it if you send it to a disposal service.
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K1VSK

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Re: How to Identify Old Components with PCBs
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2022, 10:15:29 AM »

Good friend of mine worked for a company that dealt with toxic waste. PCB's certainly aren't good for you, but the media sort of latched on to it. There are a lot of worse things out there that never got media attention.

If you have something that is working properly with PCB oil, leave it alone. 
If it starts leaking, burn it. That is exactly what will happen to it if you send it to a disposal service.

Absolutely don’t burn it. Hazardous waste incinerators for contaminants such as PCB oils burn at over 2000 degrees. Anything less will result in incomplete combustion which can create dioxins.

I agree that if it isn’t leaking, it’s not a current hazard.
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AA4HA

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Re: How to Identify Old Components with PCBs
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2022, 06:17:54 PM »

In the United States, power transformers were still being manufactured with PCB dielectric oil, as late as mid-1979. I do not know if there was action taken on items outside of the utility industry prior to that.
[/quote]

In the mid 1980's I was an EE with a large petrochem company where we had our own substations. We had to test for and label every transformer and power capacitor that had PCB's. Then they began to require us to do special mitigation around those sites (soil testing, impenetrable berms and firewalls). The goal was to get us to replace or refurbish those devices to eliminate the PCB's.

Sometimes we had to do (repeated) oil changes on big (ten ton sized) transformers and lab testing on the old oils until the PCB levels fell to below regulatory threshold levels. Other times we had to field-flushing with companies that purged out the PCB oil that penetrated everything. A few times the transformers or caps had to be pulled and sent in to have the wood framing inside replaced with stuff that hadn't absorbed PCB's.

Little known fact; Many large transformers in substations have the coils held in place with a complicated array of wooden frames. It is left to soak in the oil and provides the mechanical rigidity to hold the coils and to maintain electrical insulating properties away from the shell.
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Ms. Tisha Hayes, AA4HA
Lookout Mountain, Alabama

WA2ISE

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Re: How to Identify Old Components with PCBs
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2022, 05:49:20 PM »

Remember the Heathkit cantenna?  It was a paint can with a 50 ohm power resistor inside, and they said you could visit your local friendly power company to get a gallon of "transformer oil".  The can didn't seal all that well.    Probably oil that they drained out of their equipment, and hadn't gotten rid of yet. Probably PCBs... 
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KM4AH

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Re: How to Identify Old Components with PCBs
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2022, 03:04:05 PM »

Good friend of mine worked for a company that dealt with toxic waste. PCB's certainly aren't good for you, but the media sort of latched on to it. There are a lot of worse things out there that never got media attention.

If you have something that is working properly with PCB oil, leave it alone. 
If it starts leaking, burn it. That is exactly what will happen to it if you send it to a disposal service.

Absolutely don’t burn it. Hazardous waste incinerators for contaminants such as PCB oils burn at over 2000 degrees. Anything less will result in incomplete combustion which can create dioxins.

I agree that if it isn’t leaking, it’s not a current hazard.

Thanks for that.  I did not know that it required that kind of heat.
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