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Author Topic: Why so many FT-DX10's for sale? Hello Previous owners?  (Read 1790 times)

KB7TT

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Re: Why so many FT-DX10's for sale? Hello Previous owners?
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2022, 01:15:36 PM »

I don't knoe, I see more ICom 7300's for sale....  Personal preference I think...
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K7JQ

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Re: Why so many FT-DX10's for sale? Hello Previous owners?
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2022, 02:03:22 PM »

I don't knoe, I see more ICom 7300's for sale....  Personal preference I think...

Maybe because the 7300 has been on the market for almost 5 years longer, and probably in excess of 10 times more of them have been sold than the FTDX-10 ;)?
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K6OK

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Re: Why so many FT-DX10's for sale? Hello Previous owners?
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2022, 08:35:07 PM »

I mean, with the newer tech, it must mop the floor with the Icom 7300, and I still really like my IC-7300.

I have a 7300 (which I like) and I've seen the FTDX10, which I've seriously considered.  What keeps me from switching rigs are the filters.
The FTDX10 has three roofing filters: 500 Hz, 3 KHz and 12 KHz.  The 300 Hz CW filter is available as an option.

With the 7300 in CW there are three filters, each fully adjustable between 50 Hz to 3600 Hz (CW) in 39 steps.  These are "math" filters, not analog roofers.

Keep in mind the Yaesu is a superhet-SDR hybrid while the 7300 is a full SDR front to back. 

As nice as the FTDX10 is and while it is better according to Sherwood's tests, I don't want to give up the 7300's highly adjustable filtering and go to only 3 roofing filters. 
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N5PG

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Re: Why so many FT-DX10's for sale? Hello Previous owners?
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2022, 10:09:05 PM »

FTDX10 has three roofing filters but the effective bandwidth is also selectable, in many different steps.
Right now I'm listening to 40m SSB, 3KHz roofing filter selected but bandwidth selected is 2100Hz, adjustable from the front panel. This is shown graphically on the display.
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G8FXC

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Re: Why so many FT-DX10's for sale? Hello Previous owners?
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2022, 06:04:24 AM »

FTDX10 has three roofing filters but the effective bandwidth is also selectable, in many different steps.
Right now I'm listening to 40m SSB, 3KHz roofing filter selected but bandwidth selected is 2100Hz, adjustable from the front panel. This is shown graphically on the display.

Exactly - the roofing filters on the current generation of FTdx1... radios are the backstop, not the primary filtering. They are just as much SDR radios as the 7300 and implement digital filtering just the same. The roofing filter exists to protect the digital sub-system from strong, close-in signals - the kind of signals that can cause problems for the 7300. Direct sampling SDR is a great idea in principle, but it is expensive to implement well because it needs very fast, very high frequency and very high resolution digital components. The 7300 is only just good enough and can get tripped up by hostile band conditions. Yaesu's hybrid SDR architecture allows them to get along with cheaper consumer grade components because the superhet front end brings the signal down to significantly lower frequencies and the roofing filter removes a lot of irrelevant signal which would, otherwise, consume processing power in the SDR section of the receiver.

Martin (G8FXC)
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K6OK

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Re: Why so many FT-DX10's for sale? Hello Previous owners?
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2022, 08:31:56 AM »

Exactly - the roofing filters on the current generation of FTdx1... radios are the backstop, not the primary filtering. They are just as much SDR radios as the 7300 and implement digital filtering just the same.

If the SDR DSP after the roofing filter is so effective, why does Yaesu deem it necessary to offer an optional 300 Hz CW roofer in addition to the stock 500 Hz roofer?

By definition using an analog crystal filter in the chain has to introduce harmonics and intermod into the signal whereas a mathematical filter in a pure SDR does not.  Crystal IF filters are notorious for ringing and that leaves me a little skeptical.  I'd have to do a side-by-side comparison under CW contest conditions with filters set to 200 Hz or so before I'd commit to the Yaesu.
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N6YWU

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Re: Why so many FT-DX10's for sale? Hello Previous owners?
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2022, 09:47:18 AM »

If the SDR DSP after the roofing filter is so effective, why does Yaesu deem it necessary to offer an optional 300 Hz CW roofer in addition to the stock 500 Hz roofer?

Superhet SDRs need roofing filters if located near a high power transmitter that greatly exceeds the dynamic range of the SDRs ADC (e.g. multi-transmitter contest stations, etc.)  With a direct sampling SDR (no roofing), very often (but not always), adding some front-end attenuation, and/or some RF filtering, will allow DSP filter processing gain to work, even under high dynamic range conditions. 

For instance, the 8-bit ADC in my inexpensive RTL-SDR v3 will easily get overloaded, when used for HF, by 2 nearby line-of-sight broadcast towers, blocking most all weak signals.  But if I add AM and FM broadcast band-block filters, its sensitivity improves greatly when used in conjunction with narrow DSP CW filtering.

IMO, using a superhet SDR with a roofing filter only provides a clear advantage (over a direct sampling SDR) in multi-transmitter contest stations or neighborhoods or near broadcast towers, and in an otherwise quiet RFI environment.  If you are not near other transmitting stations and in a neighborhood with even a moderate RFI noise floor, even a 12-bit direct sampling SDR will allow DSP software to dig out the weakest signals that one's antenna can pick up.
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AC2EU

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Re: Why so many FT-DX10's for sale? Hello Previous owners?
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2022, 11:34:32 AM »

Could it  be that the Yaesu FTDX10 is glitchy?

Mine works fine, EXCEPT for when i attempt to turn it off! The internal power relay keeps cycling like it's trying to turn back on and fails. When that happens, the only way I can stop the cycling is to remove power from it.
When power is restored, it stays in the off mode.
The problem is intermittent.

I searched the internet looking for a solution, but others with this issue have no solution.
I called Yaesu tech support and got yelled at by Tim for suggesting it must be a fail mode of some type and I was surprised that Yaesu knows nothing about it! He was borderline rude.

He also tried to tell me that it was my supply causing "current starvation" !!! Funny that I can key it up at 100 watts with no problems until I try to turn it OFF! So much for that theory...
Troubleshooting apparently isn't his thing.

I can see how this kind of experience may cause hams to bail out.
Yaesu needs to up their support game.


W9IQ

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Re: Why so many FT-DX10's for sale? Hello Previous owners?
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2022, 01:23:34 PM »

There are two relays in parallel that turn off the power to most of the radio. What is the rate of the power cycling when it goes into this mode? Have you tried operating it from a 12 volt battery?

- Glenn W9IQ
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- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.

AC2EU

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Re: Why so many FT-DX10's for sale? Hello Previous owners?
« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2022, 02:01:54 PM »

There are two relays in parallel that turn off the power to most of the radio. What is the rate of the power cycling when it goes into this mode? Have you tried operating it from a 12 volt battery?

- Glenn W9IQ

It cycles at about 1 per second.
It was on a battery system when it started doing this. I then moved it onto my Kenwood KPS-15 SMPS with the same result. the radio is connected directly to the supply -no power poles or switches in between.

It does act like what happens when you try to START a radio with insufficient current, clicks then dumps but in this case it keeps doing it when I  turn it OFF until power is removed . However,It always starts up just fine.

BTW, the display goes out when I power it down like it should and all seems well until it starts cycling by itself.

W9IQ

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Re: Why so many FT-DX10's for sale? Hello Previous owners?
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2022, 06:42:17 AM »

It cycles at about 1 per second.
It was on a battery system when it started doing this. I then moved it onto my Kenwood KPS-15 SMPS with the same result. the radio is connected directly to the supply -no power poles or switches in between.

It does act like what happens when you try to START a radio with insufficient current, clicks then dumps but in this case it keeps doing it when I  turn it OFF until power is removed . However,It always starts up just fine.

BTW, the display goes out when I power it down like it should and all seems well until it starts cycling by itself.

I am a bit surprised by the long cycle time. It sounds like they have an internal transient problem (e.g. ground bounce) or a software issue. It isn't widely reported so I would tend to go with the transient. I see on groups.io that one ham sent his in for service to correct the problem. It may be worth contacting him to find out what was done.

If I come up with any additional thoughts, I will post back.

- Glenn W9IQ
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- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.

AC2EU

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Re: Why so many FT-DX10's for sale? Hello Previous owners?
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2022, 09:38:56 AM »

It cycles at about 1 per second.
It was on a battery system when it started doing this. I then moved it onto my Kenwood KPS-15 SMPS with the same result. the radio is connected directly to the supply -no power poles or switches in between.

It does act like what happens when you try to START a radio with insufficient current, clicks then dumps but in this case it keeps doing it when I  turn it OFF until power is removed . However,It always starts up just fine.

BTW, the display goes out when I power it down like it should and all seems well until it starts cycling by itself.

I am a bit surprised by the long cycle time. It sounds like they have an internal transient problem (e.g. ground bounce) or a software issue. It isn't widely reported so I would tend to go with the transient. I see on groups.io that one ham sent his in for service to correct the problem. It may be worth contacting him to find out what was done.

If I come up with any additional thoughts, I will post back.

- Glenn W9IQ

I agree that it appears to be a transient  issue of some kind. Maybe the relay's suppression diode went open or something?

I was very disappointed about how dismissive and condescending the Yaesu "HF guru" was with me.
They won't even acknowledge the problem, let alone have a fix for it!

Having an experience like mine may be why so many FTDX10 radios are for sale in order to get funds to buy an Icom!

Otherwise, I like the FTDX10. I'm going to hold out and see what happens. I may even dig into the issue myself, but it's REALLY the responsibility of the Yaesu engineers to fix this glitch, IMO.
They need a management wake up/shakeup! Most companies are much more proactive about getting ahead of product failure modes.

N2DTS

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Re: Why so many FT-DX10's for sale? Hello Previous owners?
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2022, 05:01:55 PM »

Well, 2 out of 3 Icom 7300's I bought were bad, the first one had very erratic power output, the 2nd one the screen cpu failed.
I suppose every brand has some percent of failures...
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AF5CC

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Re: Why so many FT-DX10's for sale? Hello Previous owners?
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2022, 10:44:27 AM »

Well, 2 out of 3 Icom 7300's I bought were bad, the first one had very erratic power output, the 2nd one the screen cpu failed.
I suppose every brand has some percent of failures...

How dare you say that!  Blasphemy!  It is the Icom 7300, greatest thing since sliced bread!  There can't be any problems with it.

73 John AF5CC
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K0UA

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Re: Why so many FT-DX10's for sale? Hello Previous owners?
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2022, 03:46:47 PM »

Well, 2 out of 3 Icom 7300's I bought were bad, the first one had very erratic power output, the 2nd one the screen cpu failed.
I suppose every brand has some percent of failures...

How dare you say that!  Blasphemy!  It is the Icom 7300, greatest thing since sliced bread!  There can't be any problems with it.

73 John AF5CC

It IS the best thing since sliced bread. At least in the value delivered for price paid department. It is also a radio. And like any radio it can be broken.
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73  James K0UA
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