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Author Topic: RSPdx and SDRuno used as panadapter with the Icom IC-7100  (Read 316 times)

KK4GMU

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RSPdx and SDRuno used as panadapter with the Icom IC-7100
« on: August 07, 2022, 07:42:45 AM »

For those who use their RSPdx and SDRuno as panadapter with thier Icom IC-7100 (there may be 2 or 3 of you out there), what is the best way to keep from blowing out the front end of the RSPdx when transmitting?

There are two primary methods:

1) Using separate antennas for your transceiver and the RSPdx.  Use RF limiter on the antenna inputs of the RSPdx is advised.  https://www.onallbands.com/how-a-receiver-guard-electronic-rf-limiter-can-protect-your-investment/

2) Using the same antenna for both your transceiver and the RSPdx.  A relay switching device similar to the MFJ-1708B-SDRS is required. https://mfjenterprises.com/products/mfj-1708b-sdrs?pr_prod_strat=description&pr_rec_id=ecd9bb002&pr_rec_pid=4393786835043&pr_ref_pid=4393786736739&pr_seq=uniform

So, which approach do you recommend?  What are the pros and cons of cost, set up, and operation for each?

I've heard a variety of conflicting reports about whether or not the T/R control cable from the MFJ1708 to the 7100 is really required or not.  Thoughts?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2022, 07:44:56 AM by KK4GMU »
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K4WH

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Re: RSPdx and SDRuno used as panadapter with the Icom IC-7100
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2022, 04:52:55 PM »


The MFJ unit will work, but  ......  the unit below is the very best, and you will get DXE support.  Difference is big.  Which ever way you go please still use the DXE receiver guard.  It just works.  I have one and use it with my Kenwood 890s when I use the 890 to listen to my signal.

https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-rtr-2

If you buy the DXE RTR unit you can probably get $ 200 back if you decide the whole thing is not for you.  They hold their value.

I have done what you are wanting to do.  Worked ok, but .......  if you could afford it, I'd sell the 7100 and get a Icom 7300 used or one of the other waterfall rigs.  I have had all of them and the 7300 is a good little rig. By the time you buy a SDR rig and all the other boxes and ad on's you could buy a waterfall rig,

Don't know about the cable.  the unit is RF sensing, but if the 7100 has a  PTT port on the back then you can use that to key the MFJ unit that way.

Before you buy anything, read all the manuals for the SDR, the switch units, and receiver guard and understand just how it is all setup etc. so you don't get into it and then find out it's more than you want to bother with.

By the way, the SDRdx is a great rig.

I set up my SDR unit with my Kenwood 590SG and didn't need any add on's because the Kenwood has a port on the rear that shares the antenna and does the switching.  Lose about 3db but that's not to bad.

Best of luck













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W6BP

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Re: RSPdx and SDRuno used as panadapter with the Icom IC-7100
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2022, 08:05:37 PM »

Why not install a first IF tap in the IC-7100?

https://kv5r.com/ham-radio/2018-projects/7100-panadapter/#:~:text=IF%20and%20RF%20Taps%20in%20the%20IC%2D7100&text=This%20is%20the%20bottom%20of,and%20top%20(PA)%20boards.

You tune the RSPDx to the first IF frequency of 124.487 MHz.

Full disclosure: I do not own an IC-7100, so I can't personally vouch for this. But it does seem like a simple, inexpensive, and reasonable approach.
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KK4GMU

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Re: RSPdx and SDRuno used as panadapter with the Icom IC-7100
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2022, 04:22:17 AM »


The MFJ unit will work, but  ......  the unit below is the very best, and you will get DXE support.  Difference is big.  Which ever way you go please still use the DXE receiver guard.  It just works.  I have one and use it with my Kenwood 890s when I use the 890 to listen to my signal.

https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-rtr-2

If you buy the DXE RTR unit you can probably get $ 200 back if you decide the whole thing is not for you.  They hold their value.

I have done what you are wanting to do.  Worked ok, but .......  if you could afford it, I'd sell the 7100 and get a Icom 7300 used or one of the other waterfall rigs.  I have had all of them and the 7300 is a good little rig. By the time you buy a SDR rig and all the other boxes and ad on's you could buy a waterfall rig,

Don't know about the cable.  the unit is RF sensing, but if the 7100 has a  PTT port on the back then you can use that to key the MFJ unit that way.

Before you buy anything, read all the manuals for the SDR, the switch units, and receiver guard and understand just how it is all setup etc. so you don't get into it and then find out it's more than you want to bother with.

By the way, the SDRdx is a great rig.

I set up my SDR unit with my Kenwood 590SG and didn't need any add on's because the Kenwood has a port on the rear that shares the antenna and does the switching.  Lose about 3db but that's not to bad.

Best of luck
I'm mainly a VHF.UHF guy for now.  I got the 7100 to grow into.  I can't afford two rigs, the 7300 plus ????.
Yeah, I've been researching this for months and trying to decide if the juice is worth the squeeze.
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KK4GMU

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Re: RSPdx and SDRuno used as panadapter with the Icom IC-7100
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2022, 04:26:28 AM »

Why not install a first IF tap in the IC-7100?

https://kv5r.com/ham-radio/2018-projects/7100-panadapter/#:~:text=IF%20and%20RF%20Taps%20in%20the%20IC%2D7100&text=This%20is%20the%20bottom%20of,and%20top%20(PA)%20boards.

You tune the RSPDx to the first IF frequency of 124.487 MHz.

Full disclosure: I do not own an IC-7100, so I can't personally vouch for this. But it does seem like a simple, inexpensive, and reasonable approach.

That might be the most elegant and cost effective approach.  I would first want to wait for the IC-7100 warranty to expire in a few months.  This is not something I trust doing myself but there is a fellow I know who might do it for cheap.
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GRUMPY2021

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Re: RSPdx and SDRuno used as panadapter with the Icom IC-7100
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2022, 04:27:05 AM »

I would go a different direction and sell the 7100 and get the Kenwood TS-590sg.   Better radio (than the 7300) and plug and play with your RSPanything.
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KK4GMU

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Re: RSPdx and SDRuno used as panadapter with the Icom IC-7100
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2022, 06:36:47 AM »

I would go a different direction and sell the 7100 and get the Kenwood TS-590sg.   Better radio (than the 7300) and plug and play with your RSPanything.
Nope.  Three reasons:  1)  I'm primarily a 2M/70cm guy - I got the "shack in the box" to grow into  2) I'm "considering" a pan-adapter implementation with what I already have, and 3) I don't have that much money to spend.
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KB8CR

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Re: RSPdx and SDRuno used as panadapter with the Icom IC-7100
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2022, 08:00:47 AM »

I have an IF-tap on my 7100, and it works very well. Just be aware that you will not be able to click to tune the 7100 using SDRUno. You can use HDSDR and it will work very well. I don't know why they can't add that ability to SDRUno, but it does not appear to be of interest to them.

Charlie KB8CR
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KK4GMU

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Re: RSPdx and SDRuno used as panadapter with the Icom IC-7100
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2022, 09:03:55 AM »

I have an IF-tap on my 7100, and it works very well. Just be aware that you will not be able to click to tune the 7100 using SDRUno. You can use HDSDR and it will work very well. I don't know why they can't add that ability to SDRUno, but it does not appear to be of interest to them.

Charlie KB8CR
I wonder how well Win4Icom would integrate with your setup?  https://icom.va2fsq.com/
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W2FV

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Re: RSPdx and SDRuno used as panadapter with the Icom IC-7100
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2022, 10:32:38 AM »

I use a SDR Switch from China that is sold on eBay, Amazon and AliExpress. Search for SDR Transceiver Switch for sellers. The switch allows the use of the same antenna for both my transceiver (IC-7410) and SDR (SDRPlay RSPduo).

Also have a RF Limiter from KD2C between the switch and the RSPduo input to protect the RSPduo in case of switch failure or leakage when transmitting. See https://kd2c.com/rf-limiter

DX Engineering and Array Solutions sell similar devices.

The software configuration is based on DXLab Commander. Commander interfaces to my IC-7410 via its primary CAT port. Commander's secondary CAT port interfaces to SDRuno over a connected pair of virtual serial ports established by VSP Manager. This URL provides information on this and other viable configurations - https://www.dxlabsuite.com/dxlabwiki/SDRInteroperation

This setup allows the full interoperation between SDRuno and the IC-7410. That is, I can click on the SDRuno waterfall display to tune the IC-7410, or spin the IC-7410 dial with SDRuno tracking.

John W2FV
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KK4GMU

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Re: RSPdx and SDRuno used as panadapter with the Icom IC-7100
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2022, 02:05:35 PM »

I use a SDR Switch from China that is sold on eBay, Amazon and AliExpress. Search for SDR Transceiver Switch for sellers. The switch allows the use of the same antenna for both my transceiver (IC-7410) and SDR (SDRPlay RSPduo).

Also have a RF Limiter from KD2C between the switch and the RSPduo input to protect the RSPduo in case of switch failure or leakage when transmitting. See https://kd2c.com/rf-limiter

DX Engineering and Array Solutions sell similar devices.

The software configuration is based on DXLab Commander. Commander interfaces to my IC-7410 via its primary CAT port. Commander's secondary CAT port interfaces to SDRuno over a connected pair of virtual serial ports established by VSP Manager. This URL provides information on this and other viable configurations - https://www.dxlabsuite.com/dxlabwiki/SDRInteroperation

This setup allows the full interoperation between SDRuno and the IC-7410. That is, I can click on the SDRuno waterfall display to tune the IC-7410, or spin the IC-7410 dial with SDRuno tracking.

John W2FV

I looked on Amazon and see this:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KZXWNZV/ref=sspa_dk_detail_3?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B08KZXWNZV&pd_rd_w=BNvCJ&content-id=amzn1.sym.999c0877-3704-4f0f-9726-eebf80846a35&pf_rd_p=999c0877-3704-4f0f-9726-eebf80846a35&pf_rd_r=PKGKT2J6TMCW5NC6WGEC&pd_rd_wg=RkbDl&pd_rd_r=3e3a9ed9-8d83-46d3-ad5f-10730f10c2c8&s=hi&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWw&smid=A3BKS5ISMXVHBW

Is this the one?  There are several sellers ranging in price from $60 to $90.

The reviews are generally 3 to 3.5 stars, usually citiing solder problems or excessive leakage.  MFjs version sells in the range of $130 to $140.  They are known for QC problems, but not as severe as these.  Did you have any problem with yours?

The KD2C version of the RF limiter is the one I was most interested in - $30 cheaper than the DX version and covers a broader frequency range.

DX Commander http://www.dxlabsuite.com/commander/ seems similar to Windows4Icom https://icom.va2fsq.com/ which is what I have.  i'm guessing that would work the same as DX Commander.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2022, 02:24:30 PM by KK4GMU »
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KK4GMU

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Re: RSPdx and SDRuno used as panadapter with the Icom IC-7100
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2022, 02:51:43 PM »

Here's a good Youtube about the No Name RX/TX switch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKqXBvsrGsI&t=554s
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KK4GMU

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Re: RSPdx and SDRuno used as panadapter with the Icom IC-7100
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2022, 08:47:22 AM »

I use a SDR Switch from China that is sold on eBay, Amazon and AliExpress. Search for SDR Transceiver Switch for sellers. The switch allows the use of the same antenna for both my transceiver (IC-7410) and SDR (SDRPlay RSPduo).

Also have a RF Limiter from KD2C between the switch and the RSPduo input to protect the RSPduo in case of switch failure or leakage when transmitting. See https://kd2c.com/rf-limiter

DX Engineering and Array Solutions sell similar devices.

The software configuration is based on DXLab Commander. Commander interfaces to my IC-7410 via its primary CAT port. Commander's secondary CAT port interfaces to SDRuno over a connected pair of virtual serial ports established by VSP Manager. This URL provides information on this and other viable configurations - https://www.dxlabsuite.com/dxlabwiki/SDRInteroperation

This setup allows the full interoperation between SDRuno and the IC-7410. That is, I can click on the SDRuno waterfall display to tune the IC-7410, or spin the IC-7410 dial with SDRuno tracking.

John W2FV

John - W2FV:

Well, I tried the "no name" switch box.  I had high hopes.  I checked the Amazon reviews.  It got 3.3 stars.  Many reviewers indicated they returned the item either because it attenuated transmit too much or because it didn't work at all.  Some repaired it.  I am one who is returning it - I'm not qualified to test and repair non-obvious problems.  I properly connected it to my IC-7100.  I removed the shorting pin inside.  It received on D-star but it did not transmit D-star.  It neither transmitted nor received on FM.  On each end only static was heard when mic was keyed (their mic or mine).  I did not have the keying cable installed so as to reduce the variables on my testing.

So, my question is this:

Should I just call it a day with this product and get a refund?  Or should I request an exchange and hope the next one works properly?

I do have the Win4Icom app which has a waterfall/panadapter utility - not as nice as SDRuno - sooo...I need to rethink my options.  I HATE to spend the $140 bucks on the MFJ version 'cause I eventually wanted another one for HF in addition to my current VHF implementation - $280 to accomplish this is too much to swallow. 

This is a first-world problem.  I'll get over it.
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KK4GMU

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Re: RSPdx and SDRuno used as panadapter with the Icom IC-7100
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2022, 11:23:23 AM »

Happy days!!!

I accomplished something I should have done months ago before going through all my "transmit antenna switch/spend hundreds on protecting the RSPdx" gyrations.

I successfully interconnected the Win4Icom Suite with the SDRplay software and my IC-7100 transceiver.

The panadapter that is part of the Win4Icom Suite is now tied into the radio without any antenna that is connected to the radio also connected to the RSPdx.  So no protective TX relay switch is required and it "appears" I've accomplished the same thing. The Win4Icom waterfall moves with changing frequencies on the radio, etc.

No antenna that is connected to the IC-7100 is also connected to the RSPdx.  The SDRplay app isn't even open on my computer.

I DO have RF suppressors connected to the antenna inputs of the RSPdx just as a precaution against outdoor antenna interactions.

I have apparently been wasting my time trying to find a way to protect the RSPdx while transmitting from the IC-7100 with the RSPdx connected to the same antenna as the IC-7100.  All that is unnecessary.     The Win4Icom accomplishes everything I wanted to accomplish without an RF interconnection that would possibly stress or destroy the front end of the RSPdx - for a fraction of the cost!

If my observations and assumptions are correct, Happy Days!!!

If anyone asked me how I got all this to work, I would be at a loss without spending a few hours going back to figure it out again.  Apparently it was easier than I thought or it wouldn't have happened. ;)
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KK4GMU

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Re: RSPdx and SDRuno used as panadapter with the Icom IC-7100
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2022, 07:11:22 PM »

The fact that this setup does not use the same single receive/transmit antenna for both the 7100 and sdr panadapter has its advantages and disadvantages.

Disadvantages: 

A second " receive-only" antenna is required for the sdr for HF and VHF/UHF.

Both radios are not sharing the same antenna characteristics.

Advantages:

There is no need to spend a lot of $$$ on transmit isolation devices to protect the sdr.

The 7100 will still use the main transmit/receive antenna for "receive." The sdr will still use its separate "receive-only" antenna for receive feeding the sdr and the Win4Icom panadapter.

Much less costly sdr front end protectors for  protection against excessive RF are needed for each RSPdx antenna input if the transmit and receive antennas are in close proximity.

The advantage of not directly using the SDRuno panadapter is two-fold:

1) No need to figure out how to run both the SDRuno and Win4Icom or any other rig control at the same time with virtual com ports through additional software like com0com.

2) A full-featured rig controller and panadapter are included in a single app.
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