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[AC2RY]

2RY:  With the exception of small inexpensive QRP transceiver/accessories kits, "kits" are no longer available.  (That I'm aware of) So this facet of the "kit" discussion is somewhat moot. But my curiosity is aroused. 

I think my last "kit" build was the Heath SB-102 5-band CW/SSB 100W transceiver.  I sent them a check and they sent me a box containing 1,619 parts.  I assembled it with a small soldering iron, nut drivers needle nose plyers and a small wire cutter.

How would I do the same thing today with the "custom, populated modules" you mention.  I am completely out of touch these days.

The only thing close is the Mercury IIIa, which I did buy and assemble.  (only way to get it at the time) However, even though it was labeled a "kit" I don't recognize it as such....but who am I?  I don't feel it meets your description either to be fair.  No offense intended....

With Mercury kit you get assembled boards, chassis, cables. You only put boards in their place, connect cables and test. That is it.

If you are in DIY space, you can design boards in CAD on computer at home, send parts lists and Gerber files to board manufacturer in China, few weeks later get back your custom made boards with all components already soldered at the factory. Here you only need to do testing and final assembly.

[K8AXW]

2RY: 

If you are in DIY space, you can design boards in CAD on computer at home, send parts lists and Gerber files to board manufacturer in China

I guess I'm SOL.  I'm not a design engineer, don't do CAD and don't have a clue as to what GERBER is.  (Like other words, I'm guessing GERBER has been repurposed)  And KIT manufacturers are history.

Many thanks.  66 years of building and this is where I am!   

[VE3WGO]

Satisfaction achieved by making your own "kit":

Level 1 "Okay" - you earned the money and then spent it on a radio.  You might be happy or not, because somebody else did everything... designed it and built it.  It might not be your ideal radio, but it fits your budget and does what you wanted.  It's not a kit, but it represents the basic level of satisfaction.

Level 2 "Satisfied" - you put some modules together from a commercial supplier, and installed the software package(s).  You will be a little proud of your achievement, but somebody else did the design work and detailed construction.  Kind of like your desktop PC.  You might be able to troubleshoot basic problems, but generally you will need someone else's help.

Level 3 "Happy" - you built the hardware from components, following a kit supplier's plans, downloaded or maybe even compiled the software from libraries and installed it, and got the whole shebang to work properly. Maybe you had a few bad days along the way, but it finally works.  Somebody else did the design, but you really had to build it all.  You can do most kinds of troubleshooting or repair work on it.  You probably got support from a user group and together can solve almost any problem with it.

Level 4 "Proud and Ecstatic" - you designed and built everything from basic components, designed and coded at least some of the software, and after many sleepless nights the darned thing finally works.  No matter how good it looks or how well it works, you love it now.  Controls are in the right place.  Menus are the way you like them.  Troubleshooting and repairs are all up to you.

Or something like that.

It seems as though average hams have gradually moved as a group from Level 4 toward Level 1 over the past century.

Audiophiles on the other hand, seem to have rebounded back up to about Level 3.

73, Ed

[KA4WJA]

Ed,
While your "levels" might apply to 2022 radios / amps....I'm certain you realize that there many things in our amateur radio world (other than antennas, etc.) that we can, and do, build that don't need "software"?     hi hi

So, if you don't mind, I'd like to add to / clarify your level 3 on the list, a bit? 

Satisfaction achieved by making your own "kit":

Level 1 "Okay" - you earned the money and then spent it on a radio.  You might be happy or not, because somebody else did everything... designed it and built it.  It might not be your ideal radio, but it fits your budget and does what you wanted.  It's not a kit, but it represents the basic level of satisfaction.

Level 2 "Satisfied" - you put some modules together from a commercial supplier, and installed the software package(s).  You will be a little proud of your achievement, but somebody else did the design work and detailed construction.  Kind of like your desktop PC.  You might be able to troubleshoot basic problems, but generally you will need someone else's help.
An example here:  The Mercury IIIs...


Level 3 "Happy" - you built the hardware from components, following a kit supplier's plans, downloaded or maybe even compiled the software from libraries and installed it, and got the whole shebang to work properly. Maybe you had a few bad days along the way, but it finally works.  Somebody else did the design, but you really had to build it all.  You can do most kinds of troubleshooting or repair work on it.  You probably got support from a user group and together can solve almost any problem with it.

Level 3a:  "Real Happy" - you built the hardware from components, following a kit supplier's plans.....thank goodness it doesn't need "software" to actually work (other than the grey matter between your ears)....and got the whole shebang to work properly.  Whether luck or expertise (depends on the individual ham's ego) it works!  And, actually works just like it's supposed to!  Sure, somebody else did the design, but you really had to build it all.  You can do most kinds of troubleshooting or repair work on it.  Only afterwards did you find that there are "user groups" about the darn thing, now you just have to figure out what the heck a "user group" does....maybe you can be a bigshot and show-off on-line someday, bragging on how you build your own gear. 
My examples:  Heathkit SB-221, SB-610, HM-102, code practice osc., Bench VTVM...and a couple others...


Level 3b:  "Very Happy" - you built the hardware from components, no "kit" for you, thank you very much....you used a write-up in an old ARRL Handbook or QST...you used some point-to-point wiring, but breadboarded most of it....next time you'll remember to buy some new chems (most of yours have all evaporated or seeped-out of their cans / jars) and refresh yourself on how-to etch your own circuit boards (and, you need to get some more powerful reading glasses, 'cuz you do know how to draw-up a board design, but you can no longer see things well enough)....thank goodness it doesn't need "software" to actually work (other than the grey matter between your ears)....you finally got the whole shebang to work properly.  Whether luck or expertise (depends on the individual ham's ego) it works, just like you knew it would, 'cuz you've got the expertise to do this, after all you've been around for decades doing this (you're just Real Happy that it does work, 'cuz you'd be too embarrassed to admit it on 80m Saturday night, if it didn't!)  Sure, somebody did write the construction article, but you had to change the design a tiny bit ('cuz the article is so old, they don't make that transistor anymore!), and you really did build it all.  You can do all troubleshooting or repair work on it.  Afterwards you decide to share your success by starting a "user groups" about the darn thing, you figure you can be a bigshot and show-off on-line, as well as helping your fellow hams....but, after a couple years, nobody except 2 of your best friends (that you talk to every sat night on 80m) ever joined your "user group". 
My examples: a medium-power SS hf amp...a single 811a HF amp...and a few misc projects...


Level 3c:  "Extremely Happy" - you built this whole thing yourself, mostly from components in your junk drawers....you started with a write-up in an old ARRL Handbook or a 30 - 40 year old QST...but, you redesigned it a bit, and you used some point-to-point wiring / breadboarding, but you remembered to buy some new chems and etched your own circuit board, so it actually looks like you know what you're doing....you're not an IT guy, and you're happy it doesn't need "software" to actually work, but you are already planning on a redesign / adding some new features, and wondering if you've got enough room in there for an Arduino?....The whole shebang works perfectly, just like you knew it would, 'cuz you've got the expertise to do this, after all you knew the guy that wrote that article "back-in-the-day"....'cuz you've been around for decades doing this....Sure, you got the original idea from someone else, and followed some of their design ideas, but this thing is now "your version" of his old design....you really did build it all.  You can do all troubleshooting or repair work on it.  Afterwards your buddies all tell you to share your success by starting a "user group" about the darn thing, but you're too busy with fixing your antenna and waiting for parts to arrive, etc. (supply chain issues? really?  sounds like lazy people to you....probably those "young kids" just sitting around "writing code"? 
My examples: a two-tube / dual 811a HF amp (redesign / rebuild of the old single 811a amp)....6m amp....a two-tube/dual 572b 6m amp...and a couple other minor projects...


Level 4 "Proud and Ecstatic" - you designed and built everything from basic components, designed and coded at least some of the software, and after many sleepless nights the darned thing finally works.  No matter how good it looks or how well it works, you love it now.  Controls are in the right place.  Menus are the way you like them.  Troubleshooting and repairs are all up to you.

Or something like that.

It seems as though average hams have gradually moved as a group from Level 4 toward Level 1 over the past century.

Well, without Heathkit, level 3a fell to almost nothing....and darn few hams these days will do a level 3b or 3c, mainly 'cuz there just aren't many "modern" articles about "modern" devices, etc., that don't use microprocessors and require you to download and debug software...
 

Audiophiles on the other hand, seem to have rebounded back up to about Level 3.

73, Ed

Ed, again, I hope you don't mind me adding a couple addendums to your level 3?

73,
John, KA4WJA 

[VE7RF]

No software in any of the HB tube amps that I design.  That's one small factor in why they are 100% reliable.
Stuff software and processor's in there...and the next problem is trying to keep RF out of it.

I'm seriously thinking of adding digital readout turns counters on the next amp, but have since nixed the idea.
They look cool  +  come in several different colours..and also have options for reversing the  number count, for stuff like vac caps, where CW rotation means less C.   You can also get em with a 6:1 Vernier drive, for stuff like air variables.

Me, I like my modified drill press, and myriad of geenlee punches and 11 ton hydraulic punch. Plus the usual shop tools etc.
Copper tubing is still dirt cheap in  any plumbing dept, and silver plating the completed coils is a snap.  Everything is relatively big, so it's easy to work on.  They never blow up either.  Just design it correctly, and use quality parts.  Over rate everything.   The way I deal with heat is..... don't generate it in the 1st place...or as much of it.

I can't buy exactly what I want from anywhere...so have to design and build it.  2nd option is to buy something, anything, then modify the daylights out of it to sorta do what I want.

Meanwhile, A SB-220  will still be running 30+ years from now.

[VE3WGO]

to KA4WJA, your modifications are certainly welcome.  It is true that I was trying to take a present-day view, but the non-software and Heathkit days (that I grew up in) do change the levels a bit as you suggested.

And to VE7RF, I really admire the work that you do... I've watched your videos too.  One other little annoying problem (other than RF getting into the digital circuitry) with software or firmware is the long-term maintenance of it. Getting it 100% bug-free is difficult indeed.

Lots of things don't need software (even though most things these days have it).  It reminds me of the old joke about the king who ordered his staff to design a toaster, and instead he ended up getting a "software-controlled food processor" or something like that.  There are various versions of it on the web.

I myself am an analog hardware designer.  I was lucky enough to be at a high school in the 70s that did a wholesale replacement of the electronics lab test equipment with Heathkits...  and I was part of a team that built VTVMs, audio gens, scopes, and power supplies....  all tube gear.  I built my own 6 meter gear in the 80s.  Then my earliest career days were doing low level IC design (also using discrete transistors) for audio systems in telephone networks.  But vacuum tubes have never left my heart.... the thrill of that first step in a new project - getting the filaments all lit up - is priceless.

73, Ed

[K0UA]

I have always hated vacuum tubes. I worked on plenty of TV set with vacuum tubes. All the way back to the RCA CTC-25 chassis, and the hand-wired Zenith vacuum tube sets. I never liked any of them. I also at the same time worked on the modern Solid state XL-100 RCA sets and the Modern (at the time back in the 70's) modular Zenith sets. I much preferred them.

I hated the Motorola POS "works in a drawer" solid state set. What a horrible idea. My first Amateur rig was an old Motorola "coffin set" that was 100% vacuum tube, even the rectifiers (5U4R). So this was before even selenium rectifiers. I did replace the rectifier in the receiver section with silicon diodes when the tube rectifier burned out.

My first good HF radio had 3 vacuum tubes a Yaesu FT101 with a 12BY7A driver and those weak sister 6JS6C finals. I could not wait to have an all solid state rig.  And yes while I recently had a tube type amplifier, I was very glad to put it in the rear view mirror.

No love of vacuum tubes here.

[KH6AQ]

What happens to those on the kit waiting list since before the company discontinued kits? I emailed the company today and am awaiting an answer but thought someone here might already know. I have been the waiting list since late April and my status is still "on the list."

[WB2VVV]

What happens to those on the kit waiting list since before the company discontinued kits? I emailed the company today and am awaiting an answer but thought someone here might already know. I have been the waiting list since late April and my status is still "on the list."

I believe that if you already paid the initial payment to start construction of your kit modules then you will get what you paid for at the price you committed to pay. However, if you haven't paid anything yet and are just on the waiting list to get to the next step and pay an initial payment for the work on your unit/modules to begin, then you will be given the opportunity to upgrade to the factory assembled version which only costs slightly more than the kit version. Please bear in mind the rationale for discontinuing the kits is the large unanticipated costs in repairing kits that were improperly assembled by the purchaser.

[K6JH]

I’m a retired EE. I still enjoy playing with small kits, like qrp-labs stuff. After dealing with 0201 components, I really don’t have a problem with bigger SMT either. At least the stuff I don’t have to use a reflow oven like BGAs.

But screwing together pre-built boards and attaching cables isn’t my idea of fun. So as much as I like to save money, I don’t have a problem throwing a couple hundred extra bucks at it just to get an assembled and tested amp. However, I do wonder if a Mercury III can actually withstand UPS shipping reliably. Pick your poison. 

[VE7RF]

I’m a retired EE. I still enjoy playing with small kits, like qrp-labs stuff. After dealing with 0201 components, I really don’t have a problem with bigger SMT either. At least the stuff I don’t have to use a reflow oven like BGAs.

But screwing together pre-built boards and attaching cables isn’t my idea of fun. So as much as I like to save money, I don’t have a problem throwing a couple hundred extra bucks at it just to get an assembled and tested amp. However, I do wonder if a Mercury III can actually withstand UPS shipping reliably. Pick your poison. 

If  FEDEX packs it, it will get there in one piece.

[KD6VXI]

I’m a retired EE. I still enjoy playing with small kits, like qrp-labs stuff. After dealing with 0201 components, I really don’t have a problem with bigger SMT either. At least the stuff I don’t have to use a reflow oven like BGAs.

But screwing together pre-built boards and attaching cables isn’t my idea of fun. So as much as I like to save money, I don’t have a problem throwing a couple hundred extra bucks at it just to get an assembled and tested amp. However, I do wonder if a Mercury III can actually withstand UPS shipping reliably. Pick your poison. 

If  FEDEX packs it, it will get there in one piece.

LOL.

I had a radio I fixed for a guy.  Double boxed, sent via FedEx.

Guy calls me up.  "Hey, did you by chance order this to be delivered air mail?"...  No I say.

"Well, this looks like it was dropped from 20K feet above my house.  I know it's not your fault, but I won't be using FedEx again".

Few months later I get a call from a gentleman that had me repair a mobile amplifier for.  Big unit, legal limit.

FedEx 'loses' it in the return shipping.

Before I get them on a claim, I ask the local FedEx Now office to put a trace on the package.  Magically it gets delivered to the owner the day before the insurance was to pay it out.  He signs for it.

Couple days later, he puts it in his truck.  Smoke pours out on the first key.

I shipped him a 16 x 2879 amplifier back.  He received a 2x2290 + 14 x 2879 amp back.  With the two 2290s installed backwards.

I haven't used FedEx since then.  20 years ago almost.

Plus, shipping here is like  double the cost of USPS.  And it ALL comes via air coming to this island!

--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

[VE7RF]

I’m a retired EE. I still enjoy playing with small kits, like qrp-labs stuff. After dealing with 0201 components, I really don’t have a problem with bigger SMT either. At least the stuff I don’t have to use a reflow oven like BGAs.

But screwing together pre-built boards and attaching cables isn’t my idea of fun. So as much as I like to save money, I don’t have a problem throwing a couple hundred extra bucks at it just to get an assembled and tested amp. However, I do wonder if a Mercury III can actually withstand UPS shipping reliably. Pick your poison. 

If  FEDEX packs it, it will get there in one piece.

LOL.

I had a radio I fixed for a guy.  Double boxed, sent via FedEx.

Guy calls me up.  "Hey, did you by chance order this to be delivered air mail?"...  No I say.

"Well, this looks like it was dropped from 20K feet above my house.  I know it's not your fault, but I won't be using FedEx again".

Few months later I get a call from a gentleman that had me repair a mobile amplifier for.  Big unit, legal limit.

FedEx 'loses' it in the return shipping.

Before I get them on a claim, I ask the local FedEx Now office to put a trace on the package.  Magically it gets delivered to the owner the day before the insurance was to pay it out.  He signs for it.

Couple days later, he puts it in his truck.  Smoke pours out on the first key.

I shipped him a 16 x 2879 amplifier back.  He received a 2x2290 + 14 x 2879 amp back.  With the two 2290s installed backwards.

I haven't used FedEx since then.  20 years ago almost.

Plus, shipping here is like  double the cost of USPS.  And it ALL comes via air coming to this island!

--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

I have had zero issues when stuff sent to me via USPS airmail.  A few issues with UPS.  Zero issues with Fedex.
I would not trust a $10,000.00  amp  sent via USPS.   There is an upper limit for insurance when using USPS..and it's not very much...and it won't cover damage either...only loss. 

[KD6VXI]

For freight, it's FedEx... Unless I can get a friend who owns a truck to take an amp somewhere for me.

Actually, I guess now it's no amp work, unless it's solid state and can be done via USPS.

But, FedEx was it for freight size amps.  Cheap and palletized.

Otherwise, it was all USPS.  And even they aren't 100 pct.

--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

[KC0W]

 Mercury IIIs for sale right now on QRZ..............It was just listed 10 minutes ago.

 http://https://forums.qrz.com/index.php?threads/mercury-iii-s-hf-6m-linear-amplifier.836323/


                                       Tom KH0/KC0W