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[KB6DYA]

link to view Icom PW 2
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjkrZjv4tv5AhXNKkQIHcMMDnIQFnoECCsQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ab4oj.com%2Ficom%2Fpw2%2Fmain.html&usg=AOvVaw0gj4z9H0S-GLcSdq4P5FVL

[W6RZ]

Icom IC-PW2 Promotion Video. First amplifier with digital pre-distortion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3qQQP22VVY

[VR2AX]

The u tube piece references its 'pre distortion' use specifically in conjunction with the Icom 7610, I wonder if that has any inference in relation to wider compatibility on that front.

[AC2RY]

The u tube piece references its 'pre distortion' use specifically in conjunction with the Icom 7610, I wonder if that has any inference in relation to wider compatibility on that front.

IC-7610 does not have sampling input. I wounder if the communication between IC-7610 and IC-PW2 is happening at software level through Ethernet LAN. Does anyone have copy of user manual for PW2? I am sure that there is no information in IC-7610 manual about it. Or it could be that ICOM will release a new version of software for transceiver that supports DPD in amplifier on the same LAN.

[KA4WJA]

Wyn,
I was thinking a similar thing!  Maybe, after 10 years of waiting (and hoping....and speculating) we will be getting adaptive digital pre-distortion in off-the-shelf / mass-produced ham gear? 

The u tube piece references its 'pre distortion' use specifically in conjunction with the Icom 7610, I wonder if that has any inference in relation to wider compatibility on that front.

It's a little unclear from the video whether the PW-2 has this pre-distortion firmware/software and will feed-back the corrective info to the 7610 (via its LAN connection, etc.?) and have the 7610's transmit DSP make the instant corrections, as directed by the pre-distortion software in the PW-2?  Seems a bit convoluted, but that's what they seem to be implying?  with the PW-2 brochure stating: "Super low-distortion output with superior IMD (Intermodulation Distortion)"

Will current 7610's in the field need firmware upgrades (probably yes)?

Or, are they inadvertently debuting (or paralleling debuting?) a new feature of the 7610 (with new firmware/software?), and like most new SS ham amps, the PW-2 has an internal RF-sampler/coupler that the connected radio's pre-distortion system will sample....and the 7610 will now have pre-distortion built-in?   {are using the second-receiver in the 7610, and during transmit only feeding its input via a sampled output from the PW-2?  (and then using new firmware/software in the 7610 to preform the pre-distortion?) as Glenn W9IQ mentioned months ago, during transmit the DSP processor isn't doing too much, and could certainly be used to do pre-distortion, yes?}

https://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/amateur/hf/pw2/default.aspx

https://www.ab4oj.com/icom/pw2/main.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3qQQP22VVY

And, another video from Dayton...mentioning the software isn't done, yet....maybe they were still working on the pre-distortion software at that time (May 2022)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z683LRiUSl4

Or, is Icom incorporating some newer / more modern version of Texas Instruments DPD devices (or other such devices) into their PW-2, and it works as-is?  (seems unlikely)
https://www.ti.com/litv/pdf/slwt017



What does seem clear is that wherever the pre-distortion is, however it is implemented, this is going-to-be a game changer! 

Remember, Icom made a clear statement with their debut of the '7300 (and 9700, 7610, etc), that they are not just looking to advertise some "great rec numbers", but rather are pushing both what is really needed and what can be done at certain price points (especially since the '7300's transmitter, wasn't that bad....and in comparison to much of its contemporaries, it was very good!)...

And, along with Icom's other new debuts, like the new IC-905 with 2m, 70cm, 23cm, as well as 2400mhz, 5600mhz bands (and 10ghz with additional/optional external xverter module)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzGQWmTKNzc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRPwFFimg8Q

It looks like Icom isn't resting on their laurels!     
And, unlike Yaesu's marketing by their numbers, Icom seems to be on the forefront of what really matters....I'm not knocking 100db+ rec IMD radios, but Icom (and Apache Labs) seem to be the only one addressing our poor transmitters! 


I look forward to more info!  (anyone that has it, please pass it on here)

73,
John,  KA4WJA

[VR2AX]

AC2RY, John,

Thanks. I don't profess any ingenuity on this.  It just seemed like a lawyers' marketing piece to me. I doubt if it's being sold to the JA market in those terms.

Let's follow with interest.

73,
Wyn
VR2AX / (VS6UK), GW3YGH

[VE7RF]

send em an email..or phone em.

[KA4WJA]

Actually Jim, I did both already.

And, from my call, I found my friend in up un Kirkland, WA has retired.
And, apparently my friend at Icom-Japan has also retired, as email bounced back.

send em an email..or phone em.

But, I did speak to someone that seemed like he may have partially understood the question (well, probably not....but at least he was nice) and he is passing on my query and said I should get a call back tomorrow.

So....does anyone else have any other contacts / info....please share what you can.


73,
John,  KA4WJA

[KD6VXI]

"The IC-PW2 has succeeded in realizing the world’s first DPD
as a linear amplifier for amateur radio in combination with the
IC-7610. This technology corrects the signal distortion from the
IC-PW2, by applying inverse distortion to the output signal from
the IC-7610 exciter in advance*. "

"* Not applied for non-linear modulation such as FM, FSK and MSK modes."

They don't say how they make the connection from the PW-2 to the 7610, but it states the 7610 is what is making the predistortion.

However, from looking at the rear panel I'd say it's via the ACC socket.  Otherwise, there wasn't really any other way.  The LAN port is stated for remote use. 

Also, on 110 it's a 500 watt amp.  It must be run on 240 for 1kw.

--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

[W9IQ]

Since the amp brochure is well over a year old and the predistortion is a new feature, I suspect you will see a change to the back panel. Also factor in that the amp test lab reports apparently have not yet been submitted to the FCC.

It sure sounds nice, though.

- Glenn W9IQ

[AC2RY]

"The IC-PW2 has succeeded in realizing the world’s first DPD
as a linear amplifier for amateur radio in combination with the
IC-7610. This technology corrects the signal distortion from the
IC-PW2, by applying inverse distortion to the output signal from
the IC-7610 exciter in advance*. "

"* Not applied for non-linear modulation such as FM, FSK and MSK modes."

They don't say how they make the connection from the PW-2 to the 7610, but it states the 7610 is what is making the predistortion.

However, from looking at the rear panel I'd say it's via the ACC socket.  Otherwise, there wasn't really any other way.  The LAN port is stated for remote use. 

Also, on 110 it's a 500 watt amp.  It must be run on 240 for 1kw.

--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

To have DPD you need a datalink between transceiver and amplifier. Ethernet is the first choice usually. Unless they use USB instead (like come measurement hardware makers).

Implementation can be as simple as having LUT based forward correction. When both devices are made by same vendor it will be the easiest method, though not most efficient. They can even add dynamic adjustments based on reported die temperature, rail voltage etc. fed back from amplifier to transceiver. With LUT you do not need sampler and real time RF feedback.

[KD6VXI]

Since the amp brochure is well over a year old and the predistortion is a new feature, I suspect you will see a change to the back panel. Also factor in that the amp test lab reports apparently have not yet been submitted to the FCC.

It sure sounds nice, though.

- Glenn W9IQ

You are 100 percent correct.  And the rear panel on the release(d) amp is completely different.

DX Engineering has the amp for preorder, along with new pictures of it.

They did add another port.  But, that's to switch from txcvr 1 to 2 and vice versa.  There is a port for the remote display / controller. 

--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

[KA4WJA]

Wyn, Shane, Jim, et al,

Good news, bad news and confusing news!
I spoke to Icom America this morning....yes, they did call me back, with answers!


Here are all 3 of those (good, bad, confusing) pieces:
 
1)  The good news:
The combination of the new PW-2  and  a new IC-7610 will have pre-distortion (next year not now).  They will work in-concert....and, as of now, they hope to have some other (future) Icom amateur transceivers that will work with the PW-2, but as of now no other transceivers have been doing so, and the PW-2 / IC-7610 combo is the only one they can discuss.  (I assume this is due to the need for the transceiver's DSP processor to both have the ability/capacity to make the corrections it is directed to do, AND have some way of getting these "directions" from the outside world, such as a data link from the PW-2)
{I have a maritime application where we'd desire to have remote operation with ~ 1kw wicked-clean output, and was hoping the PW-2 pre-distortion would work with other Icom SDR or DSP transceivers [Icom M-803 Maritime rig, is like a '7610 with the second-receiver being dedicated for DSC/FSK], but was told no it will not, and that "this is strictly a ham application" and "at this time only with the '7610 and PW-2"}


2)  The bad news:
a)  These will not be available until next year (2023), and Icom is hoping to roll-out at Dayton 2023, but as of now is not guaranteeing this.   
b)  Even if they make their Dayton 2023 / 2nd quarter 2023 debut / roll-out (still questionable), regular production / shipping will not occur until later {I questioned this twice, and was told that Ray was still hoping to be in production 2nd quarter 2023, but unsure at this point if they can make that.}
c)  Original Icom (digital-pre-distortion (DPD) system is "at this time, only with the '7610 and PW-2"


3)  Confusing news:
I had thought I could get some official clarification: 
a)  if the pre-distortion was being done in the '7610 (new firmware?) and the PW-2 just had a RF sampler output to feed the '7610's pre-distortion
--- or ---
b)  if the PW-2 actually had software that was doing the pre-distortion calculations and simply sending the corrective instructions to the '7610's DSP processor.

But, while I still assume it is "b", I was unable to get an official clarification from Icom.
{I'm certain if I could speak to Icom-Japan engineers this confusion/clarification would be cleared up instantly....but, unfortunately, I no longer have direct personal contact there.}



So, that's what I've been able to ascertain.
The Icom PW-2 amp in combination with a new IC-7610 transceiver, will have pre-distortion....planned to be rolling out 2nd quarter of 2023.

Anyone else have anything else?
Please share! 

{opinion alert:
I suspect getting their pre-distortion to actually work seamlessly, out-of-the-box, is still an issue...
Apache Labs doesn't actually make radios with pre-distortion, it's the software that you use to run them, that has the pre-distortion....and sure, since the software running the ANAN's is open-source and almost all the guys running them (whether they started out as such, or not) are software nuts and/or amateur-IT-guys, so it's not a big deal if the "PureSignal" (active pre-distortion) needs to be "re-set" or re-booted from time-to-time....
But...
But, Icom wishes to mass-market these amps/rigs to mostly untrained users / typically inexperienced users, so having a 95% reliability just isn't good enough....needs to be better than 99.999%...
It needs to work, seamlessly, right out-of-the-box!
Just my opinion here...}


73,
John,  KA4WJA

[KA4WJA]

Glenn, et al,
Just saw your comment on the brochures and PW-2 rear panel.  Not sure if this image will show the detail you want, but here it is.


The PW-2 Brochures that I have (that were posted on-line recently) are dated 2022.
Here are the dates printed on bottom right of the brochures:

22XSZ509B  © 2022 Icom Inc.

22XSZ510 A © 2022 Icom Inc.

Perhaps the back panel is different in the brochure that you have?

Since the amp brochure is well over a year old and the predistortion is a new feature, I suspect you will see a change to the back panel. Also factor in that the amp test lab reports apparently have not yet been submitted to the FCC.

It sure sounds nice, though.

- Glenn W9IQ

Have a look here:







Hope this, along with the info I posted earlier today, helps?

73,
John,  KA4WJA

[W9IQ]

Thanks, John for the pictures. It will be interesting to see how they implement predistortion. I do like the idea that they will be adding the support features to the 7610. This will make it the most integrated radio and amp combo on the market.

Now to be a bit patient...

- Glenn W9IQ