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Author Topic: 60HZ Antenna filter?  (Read 959 times)

KM3F

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Re: 60HZ Antenna filter?
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2023, 10:01:29 AM »

I don't know the little radio but if it is AC powered  and with the tube heaters all wired in series and power plug polarity sensitive, it can make the chassis hot.
If the antenna input has one side grounded and there is leakage from the AC service ground at the pole or elsewhere, a hum will be the result.
The radio could still be plugged in reversed even though the hum is gone.
.
Never be in a camper under or near trees in an storm! You could have been hurt or killed.
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KB1SNJ

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Re: 60HZ Antenna filter?
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2023, 11:22:47 AM »

thanks I will check the polarization make sure the chassis is neutral. This is an Arvin Midget Radio 242T IIRC. I had my friend restore it electrically and I painted it with a hard antique white enamel. It sits next to the bed and I wanted to wake up to local AM by reaching over and turning it on (we have a great local station). Until this happened, that wasnt an option most of the time. Now it is.

I tried to see where to upload a picture here but I dont see an option.


As to the tree, u right, but it was only 20ft Honey Locust not very big (almost like a big bush) and the camper (which I built) is very tough. I did not put it behind the house as there are two healthy 70ft oaks that would be very dangerous if they fell.

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KB1SNJ

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Re: 60HZ Antenna filter?
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2023, 11:31:26 AM »

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KM3F

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Re: 60HZ Antenna filter?
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2023, 03:52:12 PM »

Yes, I believe that radio is not isolated from AC and only depends on the plug polarity.
Said another way, the chassis is the ground side of the power feed.
So you can see why plug polarity is important and why the cabinet and knobs are all plastic.
Good luck.
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W1MOW

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Re: 60HZ Antenna filter?
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2023, 06:55:32 AM »

In case you are not familiar with the wiring of an "All American 5" radio, here is an excellent article about the safety concerns.

https://antiqueradio.org/safety.htm

Gary W1MOW
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The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt - Bertram Russell (1935)

So not much has changed in almost 90 years!

AI5BC

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Re: 60HZ Antenna filter?
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2023, 08:19:05 AM »

I think this image belongs on the cover of ARRL Handbook as it represents ham radio perfectly.


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KB1SNJ

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Re: 60HZ Antenna filter?
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2023, 08:40:48 AM »

Thank you!    Took many years to roll my house back to the 40s lol

That Bell Western Electric 202 phone actually works. The subset (subscriber set) is below. There's a 302 phone in the living room. They are hardwired to a xlink which is bluetoothed to an old cell phone I keep in a drawer. The xlink produces the dial tone, and the 90vac 20hz for the ringer, etc. It even goes to fast busy if u leave it off hook just like the Bells system did. We actually use them occasionally.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2023, 08:44:23 AM by KB1SNJ »
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VE7RF

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Re: 60HZ Antenna filter?
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2023, 08:53:28 AM »

I think this image belongs on the cover of ARRL Handbook as it represents ham radio perfectly.



lol.  Don't laff,  you can pound nails in with the  handset of that telephone.

Stereo gear..and also modern corded power tools all have just a polarized 2 prong plug..... "double insulated".

At a friend's place, 5 x blocks away (house built in 1977), I discovered one of the hallway 120 vac duplex outlets wired backwards, with  hot + neutral reversed.  There is 4 x ways to wire a 120 vac duplex outlet..and all 4 x methods will work, but only one is legal.

Here are the 3 x bad ones.
hot + neutral reversed
neutral + grnd reversed
hot on left side and grnd on right side

Now I'm gonna check every outlet in her home. If some idiot wired one wrong, there is probably more of em.

When I bought my current home in 1997, (built in 1953)   it had just been upgraded with a new 200 amp panel.  Electrical contractor  had left out the bonding between the neutral buss..and the main ground buss.... inside the 200 amp panel..... with the copper buss that's supposed to connect em together...sitting at the bottom of of the panel.   Panel mounted sideways to make it fit between top of concrete basement wall and  basement ceiling.  wtf?   The only time that connection between neutral and grnd is left out is on any sub panel.

I'm convinced city electrical  inspector's only do a brief cursory glance at stuff, when contractors are involved.   "yeah they know what they are doing, I'll sign off...then let's get outa here".
 
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WB6BYU

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Re: 60HZ Antenna filter?
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2023, 10:19:34 AM »

Quote from: VE7RF

...  There is 4 x ways to wire a 120 vac duplex outlet..and all 4 x methods will work, but only one is legal.




And don't forget the neutral and ground pins both tied
to the neutral wire.  That allows the contractor to install
2-conductor wiring and still pass testing with a standard
3-lamp tester.

Can be pretty expensive to fix once the wallboard is in
place.


And then there is the GFCI wired backwards...

KL7CW

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Re: 60HZ Antenna filter?
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2023, 05:11:51 PM »

As suggested, try to identify the RFI source, and eliminate it first.  You can do a walkabout with an inexpensive battery powered BC radio which usually has a built in loopstick or ferrite rod antenna inside.  You can probably pick up one from a thrift store for less than $10 or even a new one for perhaps not much more.  These radios typically exhibit a very sharp null in one direction, but a very broad peak in most other directions.  May help you find the RFI. Go outside and see if you get a good null on the RFI.  It may be 2 or possibly many more S units deep If this is the case, you could build a small TERMINATED loop, perhaps like the one written up in QST within about the last few years.  It was about 2 feet by 3 feet, had a termination resistor on one end of the loop and was fed from the other end.  Pay attention to how the author matched it.  You may get lucky and just run your coax from your yard back to the shack, but also may need a preamp at the antenna feed point.  Probably you will need a good common mode choke on the coax perhaps near the antenna, another near the house, and finally one just before the radio.  If the loop works without a preamp out side away from your house, great, but if not, power the preamp with a battery.  If that still works bring power out from your house, but you will need to decouple the power with common mode chokes like the coax.  Something like perhaps 15 turns on an FT 240-31 ferrite core would be ok, but other designs may be better for the BCB.  My remote loops use something like around 11 turns on this core, and are very effective in preventing feedline pickup of RFI.  They work great on all of the BCB and 160 through at least 40 meters.  My loops work great on the whole BCB without a preamp since signals are usually strong, but better with a 20 dB preamp at the antenna if signals are week.  Frequently I listen to BCB stations over 2000 miles distant with my loops, but my loops are larger, so possibly your 2 or 3 foot loop will require 20 or more dB of amplification.  Personally, I use Cat 5e ethernet cable to feed both dc and signals and I have a balanced 110 ohm system. The DC suppy in the shack and the signals are all on the same single cable.  I designed and wound my own matching transformers. Having a balanced feed all the way from the antenna to the shack may have some advantages. Plenty of good preamps avaible, either to buy or build your own IF THEY ARE NECESSARY.  a deluxe system could even use a rotary terminated loop which would be great on the BCB and the HF ham bands.
    A terminated loop like mine, and the QST RFI sniffer, will be quite broadband, possibly from below the BCB up to at least 20 MHz.  Much good info since 160 meter operators have the same problems as BCB DXers.
                   Rick  KL7CW
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K8AC

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Re: 60HZ Antenna filter?
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2023, 10:54:09 AM »

I recently had a line noise problem that only affected 10, 12 and 15 meters.  I was able to identify the general location of the problem by taking my portable radio tuned to 28MHz and holding it up against the ground wire on all the poles along my road.  The signal was much stronger on a couple of them than others, but the noise signal did propagate along the line for quite a ways.  When I called the local co-op electric company, they were puzzled as to what to do, so they connected me with the corporate director of communications since I had mentioned radio noise.  A lucky stroke - the guy was currently studying for his ham license.  The line repair crew came out and found the problem lightning arrestor pretty quickly.  They showed the unit to me and the ceramic insulator had dozens of spider-web like cracks.  The supervisor told me that they had been buying their arrestors from a Chinese company and had lots of problems with them cracking that way.  They showed me the new type they had installed - the USA made insulator was made of some sort of polymer that was slightly flexible and supposed to never crack or deteriorate from UV.  I wonder how many of the cheaper Chinese units are being installed around the country.

73, K8AC
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KB1SNJ

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Re: 60HZ Antenna filter?
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2023, 08:47:24 AM »

more great information thanks. china crap, hmmmm thats new. not. the common thread here is that due to propagation, it can take some technical dtective work to zero in on the problam. but looks like it can always be done with the right techniques.

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