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Author Topic: Solar power equipment and RFI in the ham bands  (Read 324 times)

WS7X

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Solar power equipment and RFI in the ham bands
« on: September 08, 2022, 12:11:50 PM »

Do you have a solar system causing causing RFI in the ham radio bands?  Or maybe you have a neighbor who has a solar system that causes RFI to your ham radio station?

Can you share your experience in how you resolved the RFI? Where you able to eliminate the RFI?  If so, what was the fix and was it effective?  Or do you still have the issue?   What type of solar system is it?  Roof mounted panels or ground mounted?  Maybe you have panels on an RV or motor home?

Please share your experience with Solar power systems and how it has affected your ham radio operations.

Thanks
Noel
WS7X
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WA3SKN

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Re: Solar power equipment and RFI in the ham bands
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2022, 01:40:10 PM »

I would say that about half the solar controllers are noisy by ham standards.  nuff said.

-Mike.
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WS7X

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Re: Solar power equipment and RFI in the ham bands
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2022, 05:27:51 AM »

I have spoken with hams using solar electric who claim no noise form their solar equipment.  But I've also seen a couple videos showing lots of noise in the ham bands.   Which solar equipment cause noise and which ones don't?
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K0UA

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Re: Solar power equipment and RFI in the ham bands
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2022, 09:04:43 AM »

I have a simple single 20 watt panel mounted on a pole I have my 6 meter vertical on. The controller is a DIYsolarforu Ra.  I also purchased from them the RFI toroids premade for $5 each with one on the input and one on the output of the controller. I have zero RFI from it on any band. The controller is up next to the radios, and the panel is just outside the shack.

https://www.diysolarforu.com/products.html
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73  James K0UA

AK4YA

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Re: Solar power equipment and RFI in the ham bands
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2022, 05:43:38 PM »

I have a simple single 20 watt panel mounted on a pole I have my 6 meter vertical on. The controller is a DIYsolarforu Ra.  I also purchased from them the RFI toroids premade for $5 each with one on the input and one on the output of the controller. I have zero RFI from it on any band. The controller is up next to the radios, and the panel is just outside the shack.

https://www.diysolarforu.com/products.html

Interesting.  I need some work done in this area as I have 12KW of PV panels and a Solark12K inverter.  Also got the Tigo optimizers and its CCA.  I didnt get microinverters but each panel does have the DC-DC "buck" converter (optimizer).

Actually, I have a metric ****-ton of stuff in my house that needs looking at besides the solar:
LED lights throughout
3 wireless APs in the house
A 24port ethernet switch
Router
Power Over Ethernet NVR security system with 12 PoE cameras
6 PCs
3 battery backup systems for lots of the stuff

So thankfully I didnt get the microinverters I just have 1 huge inverter.  But it is very noisy on lots of bands.  On 7.2LSB I have a solid 800 or so Hz tone 24x7.  Turn the solar off and its gone.  I noticed it makes a lot of noise on other bands like 60meters especially.
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KD6VXI

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Re: Solar power equipment and RFI in the ham bands
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2022, 12:49:25 PM »

It's more the installation than the equipment.  At least here in the states.  Some equipment has some EMC compliance, some doesn't.  But the install can make a dirty installation clean.

1.  You get screenshots of your HF station waterfall BEFORE the installation.
2.  You get IN THE CONTRACT that the noise level will not rise appreciably (half an s unit) AFTER installation. 
3.  You enforce this.

Twisted pair wiring will help a lot.  Ferrite on the optimizers / microinverters input and output (AT THE OPTIMIZER, NOT JUST IN THE LEADS TO THE PANEL FROM THE OPTIMIZER / MICROINVERTER).  Bonding wire BONDED at the panel or wall mount inverter AND at the point of exit on the roof.  Ensure EVERY rail the panels mount to is bonded.

Type 31 ferrite is your friend here. 

I've installed a couple hundred solar systems.  Some of the residential was the dirtiest garbage I'd ever heard.  After solar install, the people couldn't listen to AM Radio anymore.  Then, I'd pull up to a megawatt industrial installation and be able to operate HF mobile outside the fence.

It's all in the installation.  And most residential installers want to get in, get it on, and get the heck out.  a 2 to 3 day turnaround was what my employer required to make money.  And this was with a panel change to the house! (I can change most residential panels in about 6 hours.  Power restored the same day).

The contesting.com rfi list is a great source for solar and what's going on.

For brands, Fronius, Sunny Boy (SMA) where both really noise free.  APC microinverters where also really good....  And they make microinverters that will handle 4 panels with individual MPPT (meaning you have a quarter of the noise generators on the roof as if you went single optimizers or microinverters!...  Other companies sell them with 2 inputs too).

Everyone's favorite, Musks Tesla, is an RFI nightmare almost all the time.  I'd spend an extra 2 to 3 days twisting #10 THHN in a drill, winding every input and output to the optimizers with ferrite, ensuring every single piece of metal was bonded (which is not a requirement in all jurisdictions.).


Fronius and SMA.  Those where my favorite for easy to install and really RF quiet.


--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI
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AK4YA

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Re: Solar power equipment and RFI in the ham bands
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2022, 03:06:10 PM »

...Type 31 ferrite is your friend here.  ...
--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI
You say 31 and Palomar also says 31 on their site but I called them and they said to use 77 since its the solar inverters generating the interference and its best to cut the fundamental to then also get those odd harmonics.

In my case the odd harmonics are every 29.3KHz apart.  Given the Mix77 claim their range is 150 KHz – 10 MHz then I wonder is my fundamental signal really in that Mix77 range???

Or Im sure Im doing something wrong.  I always miss some mundane detail.
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W9IQ

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Re: Solar power equipment and RFI in the ham bands
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2022, 03:30:28 PM »

A word of caution. You should not put any ferrite toroid on a single polarity wire. You must always run both the positive and negative wire through/around the toroid. Failure to heed this rule will result in core saturation.

If you must treat a single polarity, then use a core with an air gap or a ferrite rod.

- Glenn W9IQ
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- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.

W7FS

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Re: Solar power equipment and RFI in the ham bands
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2022, 03:49:49 PM »

Good afternoon.  I worked with my Solar company BEFORE installation and told them that if it interfered with my ham radio hobby, they could just come back and remove the installations.  I have a 12KW system that when initially turned on took me entirely off the HF bands.  They worked (on the phone) with Palomar and ended up spending over $500 on ferrites to bring the RFI way down.  I then moved a wire antenna about 6 feet further away than it was initially, and problem solved.  No issues at this time and have had the system about 3+ years.  System was installed by PureLight in Oregon, not sure about the manufacturer.  Good luck.  Put the "no RFI" requirement in your sales contract so you have a foot to stand on should you have problems or pushback from the Solar company.
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WB6BYU

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Re: Solar power equipment and RFI in the ham bands
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2022, 04:48:27 PM »

We just discussed a whole-house system with Infinity Solar, and
I brought up the issue of RF noise.  The rep talked to his engineer,
who said that their standard products would be too noisy.

But they are willing to install other equipment if I can recommend
specifics.  I've sent him what I gleaned from this thread so far
(including the importance of installation details), and will continue
research, but I'd love to hear from others who have RF quiet solar
systems regarding the components used.

W9IQ

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Re: Solar power equipment and RFI in the ham bands
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2022, 06:01:39 PM »

Dale,

Avoid on-panel micro inverters / optimizers - they are a common source of wideband noise.

Ask to see a copy of their FCC certification paperwork for the main inverter(s) or ask for the FCC ID for the inverter(s) and lookup the lab report yourself.

Plan on and purchase lots of ferrite toroids/rods and show the installers how you would like them installed. AC, DC and control cables are all candidates.

Take a peak sunshine daytime sweep of your RF spectrum prior to the installation as an agreed upon baseline.

- Glenn W9IQ
« Last Edit: November 25, 2022, 06:05:51 PM by W9IQ »
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- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.
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