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Author Topic: Neighbors Solar Panels. What to expect?  (Read 525 times)

GREYLINE

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Neighbors Solar Panels. What to expect?
« on: October 13, 2022, 12:51:44 PM »

Hello,

I've been able to dodge the solar panel issue for years, however when I looked out the window this morning, I noticed the neighbor across the street is installing them. It's a middle-class neighborhood so I'm pretty sure they're doing it on the cheap. Possibly taking advantage of one of the many promotions that are being pushed here in California.

I dont know much about solar, but can I assume that my HF bands, 10-80m, will now be trashed or is there any chance I won't notice?

If it matter, I have a large tribander at 70'.


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N2LXM

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Re: Neighbors Solar Panels. What to expect?
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2022, 01:03:29 PM »

My next door neighbor had a system installed four years ago. I had to complain to the installer and the inverter manufacture about the HF noise. After repeated calls, and then a nice letter from a lawyer. They fixed the problem. Which was as simple as putting in the needed EMI filter, shielding and a good earth ground. Now I can stand right next to the electronics with a radio and hear nothing. Guess I got lucky.   
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KD6VXI

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Re: Neighbors Solar Panels. What to expect?
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2022, 01:24:19 PM »

"I'm buying a car.  Will it cause RF interference to my marine band radio"..?

Seriously, this question is as much relevant as yours is. 

I say this because:  I installed solar for years in California.  I've installed residential, commercial and worked on a couple of those ground mounted monstrosities you see in the Mojave Desert. 

Residential:  It's all going to be up to the installer and the equipment they are installing.  Usually the owner isn't even the operator of the solar production device.  This means you need to ensure that all DC cabling is twisted.  All optimizers (if being used) need to have type 31 chokes on the inputs and the outputs.  This is going to get expensive quickly, if they have a large system.  All panels will most likely need to be removed from the roof if this is done after install.  All ground wire needs to be run INSIDE the EMT.  There needs to be a ground bushing at EVERY entrance and exit to the conduit.  All conduits, frame rails, etc. need to be bonded.

Commercial:  Everything I said above, but it's easier.  Most can be done with a man lift as they are parking structures (for the most part).

Industrial:  It probably isn't effecting you.  As these are usually considered industrial they have to keep to the same power generator requirements as a power plant.

IE, I could pull on the street of someone with rooftop microinverters with my mobile setup and know immediately there was a solar system on the street.  I could home in on it by my S Meter.

On an industrial, nothing.  Maybe a half s unit WHILE ON THE PROPERTY.

I do know I have put RF quite systems up by SMA (Sunny Boy), Fronius, APC Systems and Enphase.  The Enphase and APC needed RF Toroid networks at the input and output.  The SMA and Fronius would meet emissions testing just fine.  When you started adding optimizers at the rooftop both the SMA and Fronius would start needing additional filtering on the roof top.

Bottom line is:  Once the system is installed, it's harder to get fixed.

Once the system is installed, it's you vs the homeowner and installer and supplier.

Some companies are better than others.  A previous employer in California told me it was more cost effective to chase down problem complaints than pay our 12 dollar an hour lackey to spin wire in a drill at the shop, making us twisted pairs available to pull.  It was actually an easier pull, probably breaking even by the time all the labor was figured in.  He didn't care.  It was all about the time spent at the facility.

Lastly,

If that is your only point source of noise, the MFJ1026/26, ANC, etc noise cancellers work AMAZING at a single source of noise.

--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

Down here in the Caribbean.  Where I hear our governor has stated we will all have solar in the next year.
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LNXAUTHOR

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Re: Neighbors Solar Panels. What to expect?
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2022, 03:35:24 PM »

ANC-4
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WA2VUY

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Re: Neighbors Solar Panels. What to expect?
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2022, 03:54:22 PM »

Start making videos of your noise environment before it goes live. If it's a problem you have before and after proof.
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KF4HR

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Re: Neighbors Solar Panels. What to expect?
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2022, 04:34:46 PM »

I've heard some complain about solar installation noise, while some others claim no noise.  At one time I was considering adding solar to my home, but based on what I've read about the potential for solar system RFI, I decided to steer clear of a solar install until such time I hear about companies design their solar systems with RFI protection.   

From what I've read many modern solar systems include micro-inverters mounted on each solar panel.  Each micro-inverter has the potential to generate RFI, and of course being mounted outside, and sometimes high off the ground, that does not help RFI matters.  Given that most people are not hams, it's a safe bet most solar manufacturers are not putting much effort ($$$) into adding RFI reduction circuitry to their equipment.  As someone else commented, if you do end up with a RFI  problem perhaps a properly worded letter from an attorney to the solar manufacturer might be your best path.     
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K4WH

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Re: Neighbors Solar Panels. What to expect?
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2022, 04:45:18 PM »


Maybe you will be lucky.  I have a friend in New York who is a ham of over 40 years and installed totally solar last spring.  He has had no issues, but he said he did his research and picked the top installer in the region.  Hope you have no issues.
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K6AER

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Re: Neighbors Solar Panels. What to expect?
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2022, 06:26:02 PM »

Start making videos of your noise environment before it goes live. If it's a problem you have before and after proof.
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AB6RF

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Re: Neighbors Solar Panels. What to expect?
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2022, 06:47:54 PM »

Just one more anecdotal data point.

I have neighbors on three sides, two of them have solar panels on their roofs.
On of them doesn't seem to cause any detectable noise, the other one makes most of the HF bands almost useless for me.

I know because the "noisy neighbor" had their solar panels removed for over a month while their house got re-roofed.
During that time the HF and VHF bands were clear for me.
As soon as their panels went back up again,  S4 - S7 noise on the HF bands.

AB6RF
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AI5BC

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Re: Neighbors Solar Panels. What to expect?
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2022, 08:24:09 AM »


I dont know much about solar, but can I assume that my HF bands, 10-80m, will now be trashed or is there any chance I won't notice?
You will notice and not a darn thing you can do about it.
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N1NK

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Re: Neighbors Solar Panels. What to expect?
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2022, 10:44:55 AM »

IMHO it depends greatly on the hardware being installed.  there are SFAIK 2 basic hardware sets.  SolarEdge uses what they call power optimizers.  these do have a communications protocol where the inverter module and the optimizers all talk to each other.  This and other design features do contribute to a massive RFI problem which is sensed by ham equipment for some distance.  Other companies use microinverters which do not contribute to RFI.

At my house, I have SolarEdge based system which did cause massive RFI until a large amount of work and expense went into taming it.  look up the K1KP article in QST from a few years ago.  my RFI suppression technique was guided by Tony and reduced RFI to a level where it is not a problem.

I have to microinverter based systems located close by and I do not detect any RFI at all from either.

Jim
N1NK
Tiverton, RI
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KD6VXI

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Re: Neighbors Solar Panels. What to expect?
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2022, 12:52:35 PM »

IMHO it depends greatly on the hardware being installed.  there are SFAIK 2 basic hardware sets.  SolarEdge uses what they call power optimizers.  these do have a communications protocol where the inverter module and the optimizers all talk to each other.  This and other design features do contribute to a massive RFI problem which is sensed by ham equipment for some distance.  Other companies use microinverters which do not contribute to RFI.

At my house, I have SolarEdge based system which did cause massive RFI until a large amount of work and expense went into taming it.  look up the K1KP article in QST from a few years ago.  my RFI suppression technique was guided by Tony and reduced RFI to a level where it is not a problem.

I have to microinverter based systems located close by and I do not detect any RFI at all from either.

Jim
N1NK
Tiverton, RI

The problem with Solar Edge is more along the lines of the squarewave output than the protocol used for comms between the optimizers.


Lots and lots of ferrite, twisted pair wiring and common mode chokes tame a solar edge install.

The HDWave BS didn't help at all with RFI.

SolarEdge IS trying though.  They are working with ARRL on getting things quiet.

--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI
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