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Author Topic: Thoughts on DMR and Analog VHF/UHF after a couple years with both  (Read 683 times)

W1MVY

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After over 2 years of operating DMR with both an HT and a mobile, I feel compelled to offer some thoughts on how DMR vs Analog FM work for day to day use vs. traveling.   As background, I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and for the last three summers have driven from California to New England for family events taking DMR and Analog FM on the road extensively.

Here are some thoughts on DMR vs Analog with todays technology (as of fall 2022):

1. DMR is fantastic for home use via hotspots to keep in touch with distant friends easily.   I use the NEDECN D-MARC network as well as Brandmeister for California-wide using cheap MMDVM hotspots - these work flawlessly and are lots of fun.

2. For local Bay Area use, I find the old Analog repeaters are far better than DMR.   There are more people (when there ARE people!) and the machines are far easier to use than the DMR local systems.    The local DMR repeaters seem to be more of a "mirror" of what I can do with my hotspots - with people chatting with mostly distant, North America and World wide traffic - essentially people "DXing" on DMR.   I tend to prefer old style HF DXing but this is a personal and QTH preference.

3. For travel outside your local Area, I have found DMR to be very poor.   

It's not that there aren't DMR systems across the US, but it is more about the Commercial "roots" of DMR and ham preferences to be "different" in each DMR network that make DMR challenging for traval.   

First the "roots" issue.  DMR was designed with unchanging commercial systems in mind - and they are good for this.  DMR programming is inflexible.  For cross country drives through many DMR networks, programming becomes a challenging proposition.   With old style Analog FM, you just go into VFO-mode, program the offset and the CTCSS tone and you're done.   In fact, you can easily scan for Analog repeaters without programming with most rigs - a far better travel system!   

Next the "different" issue.   There are no standard uses of "Color Codes" (CC) or locations of Talk Groups (TG's) on particular CC's in any DMR system (Brandmeister or D-MARC) or many times on individual repeaters within a system.  Although the TG codes are governed my the network chosen, where they appear on a repeater varies wildly.   This makes it a discovery and programming issue whenever you encounter a new DMR repeater or system. 

My personal conclusion is that I use my DMR HT as the home QTH for keeping in touch with far flung friends but I plan to replace the DMR mobile with a really good Analog FM transceiver for all mobile/travel use. 

DMR technology is too inflexible at this time to use across many systems in the US.  I understand that some rigs may be better than others, but I suspect the core technology issues still apply to all of them.

Has anyone else has similar (or different) experiences with DMR/Analog FM for home and travel?
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N0GV

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Re: Thoughts on DMR and Analog VHF/UHF after a couple years with both
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2022, 04:32:02 PM »

It would appear that some standardization of basic channels - all local one CC and slot nationwide  etc. Would be most helpful. 

Seems like you may be a good volunteer to coordinate this....

Grover
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KF4HR

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Re: Thoughts on DMR and Analog VHF/UHF after a couple years with both
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2022, 05:53:37 PM »

It seems the best aspect of DMR is the inexpensive equipment, but as they say, you get what you pay for.  IMO Fusion/Wires-X is considerably more versatile and flexible than DStar or DMR, plus it has a digital wide mode which offers better voice quality.  I guess some just prefer not to learn about its many features Fusion/Wires-X and go along with whatever local system equipment exists.
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G4AON

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Re: Thoughts on DMR and Analog VHF/UHF after a couple years with both
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2022, 12:05:30 AM »

There are two solutions, both of which are available and in use today.

Icom D-Star radios, such as the ID-5100, 51 and 52, include both a GPS and the latitude and longitude of all repeaters that are programmed into them, both analog and digital. The radios include the facility to find the nearest repeater, making “roaming” relatively easy.

The only non Icom radio I have is an AnyTone 878 handheld, it has GPS, but doesn’t have lat/long programmed alongside frequencies, so cannot automatically find “local to you” repeaters. A lost opportunity. Do any other mobiles have per channel lat/long programming?

The other solution is to take your hotspot mobile, using your mobile phone to provide a local WiFi signal.

73 Dave




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WA3SKN

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Re: Thoughts on DMR and Analog VHF/UHF after a couple years with both
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2022, 11:15:38 AM »

You are comparing over 50 years of technology changes, all based on FM VHF/UHF and built by volunteers.
Its not universal across the USA, much less worldwide.
Just look at the history of the telephone... most don't know it was in use for over 40 years before the invention of the amplifier!

-Mike.
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N0GV

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Re: Thoughts on DMR and Analog VHF/UHF after a couple years with both
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2022, 10:03:29 AM »

Mike,

Uhhh, what is an amplifier?  ;D

Grover
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N1YFA

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Re: Thoughts on DMR and Analog VHF/UHF after a couple years with both
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2022, 07:23:30 AM »

Personally I love DMR. I had a tough time programming my hotspot because when it comes to computer programming, I am as dumb as they come, but I figured it out. Programming the code (I wrote my own) was very simple. I love the idea of it but............... yes there is a but.

1. I don't like Digital in any form when it comes to getting a distance from the transmitter, tower, etc. When it comes to digital, either its all there or it isn't. In places where you can at least, with a good ear, make out a voice through the static om analog, with digital, that's not there. Too many times I have been on the fringe of a repeater or station and had a tough time. After switching to analog, I could at least make out through the static what was being said.

2. When it comes to talk groups, they are not all the same. Not only do you have talk groups to contend with, you have networks. You can have 5 different networks with all the same talk groups, BUT, none of the talk groups can talk to each other because they are all on different networks and the networks are not linked together. Of course, leave it up to the Hams who have the choice as to what they have on their repeaters and you could have an NEDECN repeater here but not another for 50+ miles but in between you will have a Brandmeister repeater. Your friend could be on a DMARC repeater and the only one available to you is Brandmeister. I live in a state where NEDECN rules the airwaves with only a few other repeaters on another network (which are out of range of me). I have Ham Friends in other states where they have a totally different network or their repeaters carry all 6 New England state talk groups where mine only carries 2 New England state talk groups. If I want to talk to other Hams on digital networks in my state, DMR is unpopular but Yaesu Fusion is spreading and is very popular (so I have been told). That means here is another digital radio I have to purchase if I want to talk around here. By the time you are done, you will have more radios than a 911 RCC in a large city, and thats just on 2 meters.

Overall, I enjoy DMR. I think that maybe some with rotten opinions of it should keep their mouths quiet when around newer Hams or Hams who are exploring different digital voice modes. I have heard nothing good about DMR from a lot of Hams because its allegedly a commercial digital mode not meant for Ham Radio, it wasnt created by Hams therefore "Its not real Ham Radio". To me, its another tool in the Ham Radio bag. Use it wisely, use it where needed, don't bad mouth it, but don't glorify it. It is what it is. It might not be for everyone, but it is good for some. Let others be and let them explore and settle into their own niche, not the majority.
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WA3SKN

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Re: Thoughts on DMR and Analog VHF/UHF after a couple years with both
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2022, 09:40:28 AM »

"Uhhh, what is an amplifier?"

Thats the little two transistor thing that replaced the little two tube thing that was placed in series with the wires to get past Chicago!

-Mike.
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