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[WA5YOM]

Thanks for info on posting pictures...

[W9IQ]

I don't understand the picture. I see two seemingly different window lines connected to the tuner. One comes from the antenna and the other is between the tuner and the balun to the shack. Why? Is the antenna supplied with balanced line or did you add this on your own initiative?

- Glenn W9IQ

[W9IQ]

Where do the two ladder line wires attach on the antenna? I see the fiberglass insulator near the concrete. Do they span this insulator?

The on-line instructions show a balanced line inside a metal tube. That cannot really be the case, is it?

- Glenn W9IQ

[KH6AQ]

Your picture is worth a 1000 words. The ATU looks like it is on the ground -- I don't know if it is grounded by touching -- and is coupling the ATU output to GND directly or via capacitance which may or may not be an issue. The entire ATU innards are at the vertical feedpoint RF potential to GND and this may be several thousand volts. The ATU can be set elevated a bit with wood blocks or some other insulator. Other than that the balun and transmission lines are -- as you know -- connected correctly.

[WA5YOM]

The twin lead is passed through the tube and comes out through the insulator and is terminated to either side of the inulator.

The insulator separates the ocf.....the twinlead Positive connection goes to the top...the negative goes to the bottom....and in turn connects to the antenna tuner output (antenna side)......positive to the insulated terminal....negative to the gnd terminal....the input (radio side) of the antenna tuner uses a twinlead to pl259 adapter......pl259 connedtion is connected antenna tuner, the twinlead side to the twinlead connection on the 1:1 balun choke....then the coax from the shack connects to the other side of the 1:1 balun choke...

The 1:1 choke balun was purchased to connect to the antenna side of the ATU.....which is why it has a wired and pl259 connection. It was later moved (based on the Greyline instructions) to the other side of the ATU, thus the need for the adapter (provided in the original
packaging of the antenna)......I was not about to buy another 1:1 balun choke with pl259's on both  sides after already investing the the current balun...

The ATU is on Concrete blocks...not the best insulator...correct...my intention was to a block of wood on the blocks.....but never got around to it.....remember...the initial install had the 1:1 Choke balun on the antenna side and the atu was grounded...

I can build a wooden structure to suspend it 6-10 inches above ground.....

Tim

[W9IQ]

Are there spacers inside the aluminum tube to keep the ladder line centered? Or does it simply drape within the tube?

- Glenn W9IQ

[WA5YOM]

Yes...spacers.....

ATU is now on a plastic pedestal up about 1 ft...and it does not like this at all......

As I recall the spec from Greyline states that the atu should be 6-8" above ground, at the minimum

Also, it might not be clear in the picture.......the insulator at the base....insulates the entire antenna from ground, which places the antenna up about 6-8" from the ground which meets the Greyline spec.....the twin lead is connected at the next section where there is another insulator.....that separates the upper half from the lower.....

If you would like to see that termination...I can take another picture tomorrow...

That is all for me tonight.....it is 8pm....I need to put it back like it was tomorrow to see if it returns to the previous swr levels.....if not...then something else is causing the big change in swr......

[WA5YOM]

One other note.....this is a temporary installation....the final install will be safe...from the standpoint that external connections, such as the twinlead terminations will be out of reach.....and all the terminations at the ATU will be covered with waterproof electrical tape....then the base of the antenna will trimmed with rock/concrete landscape edging....
I am not sure that there is much more that I can do....other than changing the 1:1 choke balun to one with pl259 connections only......then I can eliminate the exposed twin lead....
Certainly a reasonable option...but not one I would consider until the antenna is usable.

[WA5YOM]

27 turn coil

[W9IQ]

The need to isolate the tuner shows the degree of current imbalance in that feedline. If the feedline were balanced, it would be a simple matter of connecting your DXE balun to it using the wing nuts and then a very short length of coax to the antenna tuner coaxial antenna connector.

Adding a single inductor to that ladder line would not normally be done if it were in a balanced condition. Of course you might get extremely lucky and happen to rebalance the feedline for one frequency.

If you have an antenna analyzer, it would be interesting to measure the complex (R and X) input impedance of the ladder line for the various bands. That would give you some direct data to use for solving the matching issue.

- Glenn W9IQ

[WA5YOM]

The need to isolate the tuner shows the degree of current imbalance in that feedline. If the feedline were balanced, it would be a simple matter of connecting your DXE balun to it using the wing nuts and then a very short length of coax to the antenna tuner coaxial antenna connector.

I originally installed it with the choke balun between my in shack tuner and the antenna (I was trying to not have to purchase an additional tuner...), which obviously didn't work.....it tuned on 80, which it won't do no,  but hardly radiated...
Per Greyline...

The ONLY satisfactory way to provide a true floating balanced output from an unbalanced tuner is to insulate it from the ground. Then to make it “float,” a 1:1 current choke must but placed in the coax directly ahead of the tuner.

So, I installed the remote antenna tuner.....and it is now installed in the recommended fashion....it appears to radiate better on the bands it can tune......but is still not satisfactory...will not tune on 80.....at all....and after placing the tuner on a more isolated from ground pedestal...the swr is higher on almost every band.....
I connected to RHR....to compare the Vertical to my 40 meter bazooka....the bazooka was about 2 s units higher....

I have an analyzer....I can try to take a look with it tomorrow.......my schedule is booked today....
Tim

[W9IQ]

I have an analyzer....I can try to take a look with it tomorrow.......my schedule is booked today....
Tim

Sounds good. Remember: R and X, not SWR nor RL.

- Glenn W9IQ

[WA5YOM]

I will build the support structure first, to remove that variable....I want the install as it will be....
Yes R, X....

[WA5YOM]

New support structure, raises atu up almost 9"...

Results....still won't tune above 160/80/30......

SWR (atu on concrete pad)...was lower on 40......most of band was below 1.5....now low end below 2.5....drops down to about 1.5 at high end...

20 swr is higher now.....

SWR is generally higher now....

Have not checked the other bands...

I have validated the connections...

Have not used the analyzer yet.....

Hopefully this weekend...

Tim
wa5yom

[KH6AQ]

Tom, that is nice installation. At this point I have to wonder if the ATU is malfunctioning. You said you did a reset to get it to work.

What should work, and is a test of the ATU too, is to configure the antenna as a 28' vertical driven against earth GND. Even one ground rod is sufficient for a test. The ATU should tune it on all bands 80-10 meters. The balun (choke) can be left on the input if you like.

Short the top of the bottom tube to the bottom of the top tube to form a 28' vertical tube
Leave the internal ladder line in but unconnected at the tuner end
Connect the ATU GND post to earth GND
Connect the ATU wire post to the bottom end of the bottom tube

This is similar to the 34' vertical that it tuned here on 80-10 meters. It tuned 160 meters with a 60' top horizontal wire for a total antenna length of >90 ft. I don't recall if I tested the 90' configuration on all bands as it was a temporary modification to work 160 meters.