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Author Topic: Dentron Clipperton L-open plate choke  (Read 248 times)

KA9J

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Dentron Clipperton L-open plate choke
« on: November 23, 2022, 08:03:20 PM »

This morning I was using my Clipperton L on 17 meters.   I had 15 meters selected and it loaded up great.   I was chasing a DX-Pedition on CW, when I heard some loud snaps, crackles, and pops.   I shut the power off as quick as I could.    When I turned it back on everything was quiet, buy I had no plate current.   Plate voltage was normal.    I found the plate choke (RFC-1) was open.    When I removed the tubes, I could see where it had arced and at one end of the choke the wire had burned open and you could see a ball of melted copper on the lead.

Before I start to rewind the old coil does anybody have any idea if any are available anywhere.    There are no details about the rating of the choke in the operating manual.

« Last Edit: November 23, 2022, 08:07:17 PM by KA9J »
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KD6VXI

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Re: Dentron Clipperton L-open plate choke
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2022, 03:24:35 AM »

If it will fit, the Ameritron choke is a good one.

You can also find one at RF Parts.

--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI
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VE7RF

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Re: Dentron Clipperton L-open plate choke
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2022, 05:57:07 AM »

If it will fit, the Ameritron choke is a good one.

You can also find one at RF Parts.

--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

After Tom Rauch, W8JI left Ameritron in 2019, the quality of the ameritron plate choke has gone straight to hell. Tom used to wind ALL of those plate chokes in his own shop.  I know of 8 (eight| amplifiers where the Ameritron plate choke burnt up on 17m.  It's supposed to series resonate on 11.7 mhz....and also 16.3 mhz.   Tom noticed the plate chokes are now all made in house at ameritron.....and the lowest winding is way too close to the base.  My theory is.... all that magnet wire comes in 4 x different thickness's of insulation. Change the thickness, and poof, you either have more / less turns per inch, which will severely change the series resonance freqs.     The spacing between the 3 x windings is extremely critical, as is the gauge used.    I believe the ameritron choke is either 27 or 28 ga.

Dunno whether the ameritron choke would fit..or not.  It's 5.5" long..and uses a 1/4-20 tapped thread on the base.  It's wound on 1" diam, unglazed ceramic.

If the Clipperton L will handle a 5.5" choke, ur best bet is to buy the real deal directly from Tom Rauch, W8JI, at his CTR engineering site.  He hand winds em to exact OEM specs..and they will not blow up on any of the 9 x bands.

Scroll  1/2 way down to see the real deal 225 uh plate choke.
 https://www.ctrengineeringinc.com/rf-chokes-and-inductors/
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KD6VXI

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Re: Dentron Clipperton L-open plate choke
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2022, 08:52:46 AM »

Kind of hard to say they won't have resonance in any band.....  When choke placement is critical.

Just sayin.


--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI
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KA9J

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Re: Dentron Clipperton L-open plate choke
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2022, 03:34:52 PM »

Thanks for all the suggestions.    I'm using my SB-200 now, so I'm not rushing to get my Clipperton L going, just so I don't make a mistake.     I removed the choke from the amp, and it looks like the arc was from one of the leads of the inductor arcing to the coil itself.    That means that my choke is damaged and unusable, but still good so we can measure the different parameters and see why it arced.    When connected to my friend's Rig Expert antenna analyzer you could see a point starting a the top end of the 17 mtr. band that showed something was happening.      I then rigged up W8JI's test rig with a transmitter, a dummy load and the choke with a 12V miniature lamp connected in series with the choke.   You tune this across the spectrum and the lamp will light if the coil is resonating.     Mine did at 18 MHZ, peaking about 18.150.  Then I arranged the leads from the choke so they left the coil at right angles to the body.   It resonated @ 18.453.    Now this amplifier was made before the WARC bands were given to us, so this may have always been there.     I've ordered some wire with Polyimide insulation.   We're going to rewind it and seeing that I can see where it's resonating, hopefully it'll be between 2 bands.     If it still resonates in the same spot (who knows if it will or not) I'll try one of the coils from CTR engineering or RF Parts.   

The Clipperton L does have room for the RF Parts choke, but it'll be a bit tight
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VE7RF

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Re: Dentron Clipperton L-open plate choke
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2022, 09:19:56 AM »

Thanks for all the suggestions.    I'm using my SB-200 now, so I'm not rushing to get my Clipperton L going, just so I don't make a mistake.     I removed the choke from the amp, and it looks like the arc was from one of the leads of the inductor arcing to the coil itself.    That means that my choke is damaged and unusable, but still good so we can measure the different parameters and see why it arced.    When connected to my friend's Rig Expert antenna analyzer you could see a point starting a the top end of the 17 mtr. band that showed something was happening.      I then rigged up W8JI's test rig with a transmitter, a dummy load and the choke with a 12V miniature lamp connected in series with the choke.   You tune this across the spectrum and the lamp will light if the coil is resonating.     Mine did at 18 MHZ, peaking about 18.150.  Then I arranged the leads from the choke so they left the coil at right angles to the body.   It resonated @ 18.453.    Now this amplifier was made before the WARC bands were given to us, so this may have always been there.     I've ordered some wire with Polyimide insulation.   We're going to rewind it and seeing that I can see where it's resonating, hopefully it'll be between 2 bands.     If it still resonates in the same spot (who knows if it will or not) I'll try one of the coils from CTR engineering or RF Parts.   

The Clipperton L does have room for the RF Parts choke, but it'll be a bit tight

IF u rewind it with the same number of turns, and same ga of wire, it will resonate on 18-mhz, and blow up...again.   Watch out, you can buy magnet wire, in 4 x different thickness's of 'goop'.  Depending on thickness, the number of turns per inch will vary, and change the resonance point.   Polyimide insulation is typ 200 deg C rated...and also HV rated, BUT that depends on the gauge used.  On the larger gauges, like 8-10-12-14-16 ga, it's good for 15 kv..and 30 kv between turns.  Can't remember what the HV rating is on the typ 27/28 ga used on the typ plate chokes.

To do this right, re-wind the coil to original turns, then do the various tests.  If it resonates within 5% of 18.168, then remove 1-2-3-4 turns from the top of the choke, 1 turn at a time (and re-test each time).   This will shift the 18 mhz resonance up higher in freq.  Ideally, you want to ..'park'  the resonance point at 19.584 mhz.   Then it's midway between 18.068 and 21.000 mhz...(and 7.7% away from both 17+15m).   

On the old B+W 800 chokes, they resonated just beyond the top of 15M band. 50-50 chance it would blow up on 15m ssb. Back then, we all removed 4 x turns from the top of the choke, and shifted the resonance higher in freq, like 23-24 mhz.  Back then, we didn't have a 12m band.

Parking resonance points is a trick in itself.  Removing a few turns from the top is the easiest way to shift the resonance point higher.   Conversely, if turns are increased, resonance will decrease.  16.209 mhz would be midway between 20m and 17m.... BUT the required extra turns won't fit on the oem choke...too short.
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