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[G4AON]

Once the novelty of clicking a mouse to let your computer “work” a station on FT8 wears off, try VarAC.

The chat add-on to Vara works really well with auto QSY when calling CQ, as well as being able to exchange signal report’s automatically with a ping.

Most messages on this forum relate to FT8, which although effective, it is fairly limited in terms of engaging in a meaningful QSO.

Vara + VarAC operates down to the same weak signal levels as FT8 and is just as easy to configure.

If you pay for the Vara licence, you can run higher speed data, but the free version works well enough if you don’t mind the occasional nag screen.

Give it a try:
https://www.varac-hamradio.com/

73 Dave

[N8NK]

"fairly limited in terms of engaging in a meaningful QSO"?

FT8 is utterly useless for the exchange of anything and has done more to damage meaningful communications than any technology ever devised for use on our bands.

Please see my 'fun-hearted' FT8 playlist at: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3CPduOS04NcwAa0xE3fgUci8nfWHOj1M
Chuck, N8NK

[G4AON]

FT8 is utterly useless for the exchange of anything and has done more to damage meaningful communications than any technology ever devised for use on our bands.

Chuck, N8NK

I completely agree with you Chuck. It is depressing to see an almost dead band except for FT8.

VarAC is getting very popular on 20m and 40m, unfortunately too popular at times with stations pinging each other and not QSYing off “105”.

73 Dave

[KD6VXI]

"FT8 is utterly useless for the exchange of anything and has done more to damage meaningful communications than any technology ever devised for use on our bands."

"switching power supplies and other QRM is utterly useless for the exchange of anything and has done more to damage meaningful communications than any technology ever devised for use on our bands."

Fixed that for you.

At my previous qth I had > S9 for noise level.

I guess, by your standard, I should have just shut my radio off and never used any digital mode at all, right?

Bashing modes on radios comms is stupider than operating system bashing.

--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

[G4AON]

Shane, the big advantage of VarAC (Vara Chat) is that it works with the same poor signals as FT8, (typically down to -20 dB signal to noise), but with the added ability to engage in conversation with the other station.

Maybe many hams don’t want to chat with other hams anymore, but surely that is one of the main reasons to take up the hobby in the first place?

In these days where mental health seems to be raised in almost every news bulletin, and where some tables in cafes have a notice saying “sit here if you want someone to talk with”, surely encouraging possibility lonely hams to actually converse with each other isn’t such a bad idea?

73 Dave

[N4MJG]

Dave,

need to do lots of reading about ft 8 and still learing right now will take me time to understand and learn how it wor and how to do it ! since i got my win7 downloaded yesterday on my dell desk top my lap top like download wsjtx i try so many time it wont downloaded i gave up and my desktop out yesterday and downloaded on my desk top and it took it yay !

Real fun begin to learn since KB4JHU  told me about it i have no clue what he talked about i had to do sreach on google i said it's digital mode i said cool i dump my HRD while back i wanted to try ft8.

73
Jackie
N4MJG
SKCC 7305 SINCE 2005
NAQCC 5233
OMISS 11548
General  LIC SINCE 2007
PRFER EQSL

[G8FXC]

Shane, the big advantage of VarAC (Vara Chat) is that it works with the same poor signals as FT8, (typically down to -20 dB signal to noise), but with the added ability to engage in conversation with the other station.

...

73 Dave

I've been using VarAC for a couple of months now. It's a fun mode provided the signals are reasonably strong, but I find that it fails as the SNR drops off. The problem is that it is build on top of VARA which is an ARQ mode with zero error tolerance - that is necessary for structured data communications, but not for a simple chat application. I also use JS8Call which is a chat application built on top of the FT8 protocol but has no repeat transmission requesting. As the signal dips down into the noise floor on JS8Call, the transferred data becomes corrupted, but the QSO continues - the human mind can cope with a remarkable amount of data corruption and still make sense of the message.

With VarAC, as the signal drops into the noise floor, it goes into a cycle of NACKs and repeat transmissions - I can see the data being received via the monitor and the QSO often stalls while the error density is very low.

The latest version of VarAC has introduced what it calls "broadcast" which is intended to permit multi-station nets. The VARA ARQ protocol can't be used in the context of multiple communicating stations because it required a positive handshake for each packet transmitted. VARA now has a KISS protocol option which is not error immune and does not implement repeat transmissions. VarAC broadcast uses this - I'm hopeful that it will overcome the NACK storm problem as the signal drops out. At the moment, it is a separate function from the main chat function - I would like to see a future release give us the option to flip between ARQ and KISS mode "on-the-fly" in response to changing propagation conditions.

Martin (G8FXC)

[G4AON]

Martin, Pactor 2 and 3 overcome the partial decode problem and give good throughput under marginal conditions.

Unfortunately Pactor modems aren’t cheap.

73 Dave

[AI5BC]

"fairly limited in terms of engaging in a meaningful QSO"?

FT8 is utterly useless for the exchange of anything and has done more to damage meaningful communications than any technology ever devised for use on our bands.

I see the fossils are still sucking air from their O2 tanks. Hams are full of hate like most boomners.

[W7CXC]

Well now.....Knowing that it is pointless to join the fray here goes in any case.

Fossils are, like it or not, the roots of ham radio and if it were not for us hamdom would likely not exist. If FT8 floats your boat then have fun and enjoy it. There is no need to disparage others to make your point and IMHO it only tends to devalue your comments and perhaps you as well. For me FT8 is just a bunch of noise on the band. That being said if it is a mode that you or others are interested or even excited about then by all means go for it. That should not however give license to demean other modes like CW,. AM, SSB, RTTY or others either covertly or overtly.

Being 82 and not yet on O2, I, for one , find your comments offensive and in poor taste but then ham radio is nothing like it was in the mid 50's when starting this adventure in radio. Then folks were more civil. Lord willing your day as a "fossil" will come and you might understand.

73's David

[W0CKI]

Well said David. My first reaction when I saw this thread was to join the fray. You summed it up correctly. IMHO, FT8 isn't ham radio. But it's out there and folks love it. So, that's OK and hopefully it will extend the hobby. BTW, I'm 82 also.
Gary W0CKI

[AK4YA]

How is this varac different from jscall?  I've done a bit of jscall and while not quite exactly as directly interactive like psk31 was, its definitely sometimes a pleasant diversion from the strict automation that ft8 is.

Both have their uses.  I know I was absolutely thrilled when I got my first ft8 qso to Perth in western AUS since as far as land masses go that absolutely as close to the other side of the world for my qth as is possible.

[G4AON]

How is this varac different from jscall?

Not having tried JS Call, I can’t say.

However, Vara (the data mode behind VarAC) is capable of throughput similar to Pactor 3, with a max data rate around 5600 bps.

In addition, Vara works with Winlink to give worldwide email over HF.

73 Dave

[G8FXC]

VarAC and JS8Call are conceptually similar in that they are both chat modes with support for store-and-forward messaging. VarAC is more sophisticated because it is built on top of VARA which is a connection based mode with ARQ error correction. With reasonably strong signals, VarAC is very fast and there is zero message corruption. But that is also it's weak point - as the signals drop into the noise, VARA has zero error tolerance and it starts to drop into an almost endless cycle of NACKs and retransmissions. Either one of the operators gets fed up with waiting and aborts the QSO or the maximum retry count is exceeded and VARA drops the connection.

In contrast, JS8Call will soldier on forever, happily displaying garbage at times. It's connectionless, and there is no error correction, so it will never abort the QSO.

Martin G8FXC

[W2UIS]

I enjoy FT8 because I don't have to listen about doctor appointments.