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Author Topic: Flex Radio 6700 vs. Anan 7000DLE MKII better CW performance  (Read 467 times)

KW4CQ

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Flex Radio 6700 vs. Anan 7000DLE MKII better CW performance
« on: November 06, 2022, 05:26:00 AM »

Does one of these offer better performance over the other for CW contests and DX chasing in pileups?  Sherwood's test data shows the Flex 6700 as No.2 on his list and the ANAN as No.13.  For CW work is the 6700 a better choice?  Are there other more important considerations?
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W9AC

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Re: Flex Radio 6700 vs. Anan 7000DLE MKII better CW performance
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2022, 06:34:42 AM »

Bob,

Several years ago, I owned a Flex 6700.  Among several factors leading to its sale, I was annoyed by low-level switch-mode spurs from an internal DC-DC converter, the amplitude of which was highly dependent on the SCU Faraday cage's contact tightness. These spurs were generally below band noise with an antenna connected but not on each band.  To solve the problem, I machined a pair of Delrin rods with a center screw that pressed the SCU cage's cover against the side chassis rail.  Crude, but it worked.  Even better would be to solder the cover finger contacts but that would then render components inside the SCU impossible to fix. 

My ANAN 7000DLE also has some low-level switching spurs from a DC-DC converter on the Orion II board.  With an antenna connected, no spur approaches the noise floor.  Moreover, the switching frequency was selected such that nearly all spurs fall outside the ham bands. I see no spurs on 6m.

Regarding the Sherwoood list, with RMDR of 110 dB or greater, I cannot imagine a situation where it will matter, apart from a co-locate operation like Field Day. 

My ANAN 7000DLE operates in full-duplex CW QSK mode.  The sidetone is my own transmitted signal -- not the internally-generated sidetone generator.  With ASIO audio drivers, I have no ear-hand coordination issues up to my maximum ability to send with a paddle, which is about 40 wpm. Low-latency and phase-linear filters can be selected in Thetis control software. There are absolutely no QSK artifacts, even past 50 wpm.  When I say none, I mean none.  Have a listen to a .WAV file I uploaded to the Apache Labs forum.  The Apache website would not accept an uncompressed .WAV file.  So, what's heard is slightly noisy due to digital compression for the upload.

https://community.apache-labs.com/download/file.php?id=2590

More info here:

https://community.apache-labs.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3920&p=19664&hilit=w9ac+cw+qsk#p19664

Operationally, the ANAN has been fantastic when paired with a DJControl Compact MIDI controller and Stream Deck device.  Every knob, each VFO, switch, and function-assignable button is where I want them.  I'm no longer held hostage to the ergonomics dictated by the manufacturer.  The Stream Deck has been programmed with multiple pages.  For example, memories, VFO splits with macros, DSP, band-stacking all have dedicated pages, each of which is only one layer under the home screen.  The home screen also has a button for commonly used websites.  Logos are saved as .JPG images and uploaded to the respective website button. See the top of my QRZ page for an example.

Paul, W9AC




 
« Last Edit: November 06, 2022, 06:36:57 AM by W9AC »
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N7ZDR

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Re: Flex Radio 6700 vs. Anan 7000DLE MKII better CW performance
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2022, 07:11:27 AM »

Well said Paul!
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N6YWU

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Re: Flex Radio 6700 vs. Anan 7000DLE MKII better CW performance
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2022, 12:21:37 PM »

The Anan also has the advantage that the protocol is completely open and documented as a single or shallow stack of layers, allowing multiple software developers to write their own interfaces or SDR stacks if they don't like the ones provided by the manufacturer.
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W6UV

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Re: Flex Radio 6700 vs. Anan 7000DLE MKII better CW performance
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2022, 04:15:14 PM »

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't the ANAN a fat pipe system where all of the DSP is done on the PC? (As opposed to the Flex, which is a thin pipe system where most of the DSP is done in the radio.)
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W9AC

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Re: Flex Radio 6700 vs. Anan 7000DLE MKII better CW performance
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2022, 05:25:04 PM »

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't the ANAN a fat pipe system where all of the DSP is done on the PC? (As opposed to the Flex, which is a thin pipe system where most of the DSP is done in the radio.)

Yes, data moves at gigabit speed between the ANAN and PC when using Thetis control software.  Many skeptics proclaimed that a thick Ethernet solution could not produce good QSK results.  But here we are: software and hardware that communicate at gigabit speed that result in super-fast, artifact-free QSK performance. 

The main disadvantage is that ANAN's thick Ethernet architecture isn't conducive to a natively run remote operation.   However, one can still use remote desktop software, a sound interface device, and synchronized Winkeyers at each end of the link to achieve the same objective.   

Paul, W9AC
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W6UV

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Re: Flex Radio 6700 vs. Anan 7000DLE MKII better CW performance
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2022, 01:06:54 PM »

How do they get around the fact that Windows isn't a real-time operating system?
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G4AON

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Re: Flex Radio 6700 vs. Anan 7000DLE MKII better CW performance
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2022, 05:17:11 AM »

Does one of these offer better performance over the other for CW contests and DX chasing in pileups?  Sherwood's test data shows the Flex 6700 as No.2 on his list and the ANAN as No.13.  For CW work is the 6700 a better choice?  Are there other more important considerations?
Rob’s list depends on which list you base your choice on… There is also a list by Bob of RX latency which puts both Flex and Anan at the bottom!

http://nc0b.com/latency/Latency%20tests%20on%20several%20transceivers-11.pdf

73 Dave



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N2DTS

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Re: Flex Radio 6700 vs. Anan 7000DLE MKII better CW performance
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2022, 04:39:46 PM »

Two ways, one is to use a fast computer, which can be way beyond what the sdr calls for.
Even a mid level modern I5 system can run very low latency.

Another thing they are doing is to use the video card to crunch the data, it IS real time.

Flex and Elecraft use on board fpga and other chips in the radio to do the heavy lifting, the Icom uses dsp chips to do a lot of the work I think.

I had a Flex 6400M and whatever on board setup does the work is not as fast as a mid level windows computer can be. There was more latency, although not bad.
For voice, beyond about 200 MS gets annoying to listen to I think.


How do they get around the fact that Windows isn't a real-time operating system?
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KD6VXI

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Re: Flex Radio 6700 vs. Anan 7000DLE MKII better CW performance
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2022, 03:58:32 AM »

How do they get around the fact that Windows isn't a real-time operating system?

CUDA Cores.

My SDR computer has more vido processin power than my kids gaming computer.  Although using my Hermes based SDR on a basic Lenovo SFF PC hasn't produced a whole lot of issues either.  And it runs on 60 watts vs the SDR rig (which is in storage back in the states) runs on appx 650 watts.

--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI
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