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Author Topic: Noob gives up the 2N/2222 Project  (Read 748 times)

AB7YT

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Noob gives up the 2N/2222 Project
« on: December 03, 2022, 03:39:48 PM »

Thanks to everybody who gave me advice on how to build the 2N/2222 transceiver. I've so far invested so much time, money, and sanity on this thing that I think it's time for me to cut my losses and go back to just being an appliance operator.
My first radio was an Emtech NW40, designed by Roy Gregson W6EMT. It went together easily and I made lots of contacts with it. I don't know what has changed since then, but I apparently can no longer follow directions.
I had gotten the 2N/2222 as far as the IF, which I couldn't get to work, then I removed those parts and the VFO would no longer work. I built the VFO separately on a small piece of board, but that wouldn't work either.
At this point, I'm just too frustrated to try anything else. If anybody wants a good deal on a partially completed kit, send me a private message.
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G4AON

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Re: Noob gives up the 2N/2222 Project
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2022, 12:52:39 AM »

Frank, at least you gave it a try. Sadly many amateur radio ops these days don’t even make up an antenna patch lead.

The good news is that transceiver looks to be modular, which helps a lot as each board can be built and tested in isolation.

On my web pages there are two modular transmitters, an earlier CW only one and a later development that includes SSB as well, plus a 10 band receiver. Feel free to pinch a few ideas and maybe just make a single band receiver. The Hycas IF (not my design) is the heart of the receiver and a huge number have been built over the years. See:
https://www.qsl.net/g4aon/

73 Dave
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N2TO

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Re: Noob gives up the 2N/2222 Project
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2022, 07:23:31 AM »

I saw Jim Kortge, K8IQY speak at Atlanticon 2000 presented by the NJ-QRP Club. Manhattan-style construction was very popular among the QRP clubs and QRP-L members (QRP List). Jim's work was excellent.

"The K8IQY 2N2/30 ... A 30-Meter, Discrete Component, CW Transceiver", by Jim Kortge, K8IQY -- Jim Kortge is a master craftsman of Manhattan-style construction projects and has contributed solid and useful designs to our QRP community. These include the 2N2/40 Transceiver, the Precision Variable Crystal Oscillator (http://www.njqrp.club/pvxo/index.html), and the Islander Audio Amplifier (http://www.njqrp.club/islanderamp/index.html).  K8IQY is the newest member of the QRP Hall of Fame and his presentation this year overviews the design, construction, and performance of a 30-meter, discrete component CW transceiver based on the his previous award winning 2N2/40 design.  New and revised circuits are employed, providing improved performance over the 2N2/40 while retaining the straight forward, Manhattan-style construction approach.  Details are provided for using SMT components with this construction method.  This new design carries forward the extensive use of PN2222 transistors, while also employing other discrete, active devices to enhance performance and reduce construction effort.

GL

73 Kevin N2TO
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AC2EU

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Re: Noob gives up the 2N/2222 Project
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2022, 08:33:59 AM »

Sorry to hear that you were defeated by an inanimate object!
I find it hard to accept, but at least you tried.
If at any point you feel you want to give it another go , here are some things to remember:

1) Assume nothing, always verify.
2) attention to detail
3) RF requires short, direct point to point connections
4) sometimes simple things can cause major problems, don't over think it.

In the spirit of the last item, I just repaired a radio that a good tech spent weeks troubleshooting to no avail.
He sent me all kind of measurement info and had a few theories as well.
The problem? bad vias on the board and micro  solder cracks. It required no parts to repair!

G4AON

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Re: Noob gives up the 2N/2222 Project
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2022, 08:56:04 AM »

Forgot to mention, “Manhattan” construction can leave virtually invisible copper debris shorting out pads if you cut the islands with a tubular cutter, or saw square islands with a hacksaw. A stiff brush and a good magnifier can help.

Once up and running, spray the boards with a protective lacquer.

73 Dave
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K8AXW

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Re: Noob gives up the 2N/2222 Project
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2022, 09:51:12 AM »

7YT:  May I suggest you set the project aside, preferably out of sight?  Walk away from it.  As for getting rid of it...bad idea, probably based on emotion. 

I know from whereof I speak!  My first major project, an 8-digit frequency counter took me 3 years to get operational.  It took me 9 years to get a 1400w homebrew amp operational.  That one had me defeated; on the bottom emotionally!  The last project which was to be a $50.00 build wound up costing me over $300.00 not counting the price of a scope and frequency meter.  Oh yes, it cost me three years of frustration, anxiety and many sleepless nights.


Your project is paid for and you don't have to feed it.  If you get rid of it you'll be haunted for years over this "failure."

With time your patience will return, your expertise will improve and probably your test equipment status will be upgraded.

Perhaps one day you'll get the box of parts out and the whole thing will go right together. 

I have my doubts if this will be your last attempt to build something!

Al - K8AXW
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WB6BYU

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    • Practical Antennas
Re: Noob gives up the 2N/2222 Project
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2022, 08:36:48 AM »

One of the most important steps in building
electronic devices is debugging them to get
them to actually work.

It’s actually uncommon, in my experience,
for my circuits to work the first time,
particularly with “ugly” construction.

This requires a methodical approach, and an
understanding of what voltages to expect in
various parts of a circuit.  (The old Heathkit
assembly manuals had tables of expected
voltages on each pin of each tube or transistor.)
Measuring resistance to ground can also
narrow down the problem.

Rarely would it require rebuilding a whole
section of the circuit, unless you had to
remove some parts to get to the faulty one.

While test equipment like a ‘scope and signal
generator can be useful, a common multimeter
and a few tricks can help to narrow down the part
of the circuit that isn’t working.  For audio
amplifier stages, for example, touching a finger
to the input of a stage should result on hum and
noise on the output.  Working backwards from
the speaker should result in louder noise, until
you reach the bad stage.  Simple wideband noise
generators can serve the same function in IF
and RF stages.  I used to use the local
oscillator in my general coverage receiver as
a signal generator when needed.

It certainly helps to view the circuit as a set
of individual stages, and have an idea of what
each does.  And, when building a receiver,
starting with the audio output and working
backwards, so you can check each stage as
you build it.


Those of us who have built or repaired
equipment will probably have plenty of
stories of perplexing problems that we
had to debug.  When I was in high school
I spent my whole summer’s earnings on
a used 75m SSB transceiver as an
incentive to upgrade from Novice, only
to discover that it didn’t work.  Lacking
other options, I sat down with a copy of
the RCA Tube Manual to figure out what
voltage to expect on each pin of each
tube.  (I didn’t even have a schematic to
start with.)

Finally, I discovered (using my receiver)
that the oscillator wasn’t oscillating.  All
the DC voltages looked good, and eventually
I noticed a solder lug on the tuning capacitor
was bent over and shorting to the screw
of a trimmer capacitor.  One little tweak
and the set burst into life, after months of
effort.

Meanwhile I had learned so much in the process
that I upgraded from Novice to Advanced in
one sitting.

N8YX

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Re: Noob gives up the 2N/2222 Project
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2022, 01:36:12 PM »

Have a link to details of the transceiver? Sounds like a fun project to attempt.
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KC3TEC

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Re: Noob gives up the 2N/2222 Project
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2022, 12:04:47 PM »

Building any project requires careful consideration.
Kit building can be done rapidly by a skilled tech.
Even ugliest construction if following a valid schematic.

Scratch and homebrew designing however needs measurements at each section and consideration of modification to obtain the desired results.
Sometimes it's amusing to make some mistakes.
Drives the wifey nuts when I fry an led :D
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VU2NAN

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Re: Noob gives up the 2N/2222 Project
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2022, 02:18:45 AM »

Hi OM Frank,

I do hope you have followed the 2N2222 pinout.



73,

Nandu.

KC3TEC

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Re: Noob gives up the 2N/2222 Project
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2022, 07:11:58 AM »

Hi OM Frank,

I do hope you have followed the 2N2222 pinout.



73,

Nandu.

The pinout configuration is something that throws many for a loop.
Also the availability and alternate transistors that can be used.
Generally you can find the information in semiconductor reference guide.
But we also have the internet to search  specifications.

When purchasing transistors assortment packs if they come with the spec sheet, I keep that in a binder or print out the specs
And label the pinout on the bins.
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AI5BC

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Re: Noob gives up the 2N/2222 Project
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2022, 07:26:54 AM »

It is a simple circuit a highschooler can figure out.
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KC3TEC

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Re: Noob gives up the 2N/2222 Project
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2023, 08:17:35 AM »

It is a simple circuit a highschooler can figure out.

That depends on the education background.
I've seen many people who couldn't do basic math and could barely read.
Pushed through school and out the doors.

Nonstandardized education because of cultural or regional diversity and lack of a disciplinary standard is a major stumbling block.
Oversized classes leads to taxing the teachers abilities to effectively control the environment of the classroom.

Legal limitations placed on disciplinary actions leads to a broad range of contention and disrespect.
And the overall effect on the teachers is excessive stress, despondency and often crushing depression.
IOT they become nothing more than tied up babysitters.

I've taught math, reading, and science to recruits in the service to keep them from being booted out.

Sorry if I sound like a soap box barker, but education is an important subject to me.
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K8AXW

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Re: Noob gives up the 2N/2222 Project
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2023, 09:59:39 AM »

TEC:  What you write is very true plus there are other factors involved with "noobs" failure to get a "simple" circuit to function properly.

I've spent 66 years operating and building. I've built things from from Heathkits/Knightkits to scratch building a solid-state 8-digit frequency counter, solid-state transceiver, 1400w HF linear amplifier and MANY other builds in between. 

One of the last builds was a "simple" regenerative receiver.  I was never able to get it to work.  It's been on the "Get Back To" shelf for a couple years now.  I think it was Kenny Rogers who had a song with the lyrics, "You have to know when to hold 'em; when to fold 'em."  There are more important things in life besides "simple circuits!"

One other thing.  Most on eHam don't respond to trolls.  It's very nice that said trolls are like one for every hundred people who try to help and encourage those who need it.
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K3UIM

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Re: Noob gives up the 2N/2222 Project
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2023, 11:09:39 AM »

AXW: "One other thing.  Most on eHam don't respond to trolls.  It's very nice that said trolls are like one for every hundred people who try to help and encourage those who need it."

I've come to the conclusion that trolls usually aren't as knowledgeable as those they criticize but want their 15 minutes of "fame" and act accordingly. (And in doing so, actually reveal their ignorance.) Ignoring them is the only way of losing them. (Oh yah! Easy for you to say!!) ;D

Charlie
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Charlie. K3UIM
Where you are: I was!
Where I am: You will be!
So be nice to us old fogies!!
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