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Author Topic: People of all ages operate ham radio. What's your age? (This is the response fro  (Read 1434 times)

K6BRN

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It might take longer but ham radio will die like model trains. Todays youth has little patience for learning.

Hi Mike (K6AER):

Chin up!  It's not THAT gloomy!

Humanity, as a whole, changes very slowly.  Based on my own experience with my own children and with mentoring newly minted engineers and techs, its roughly the same percentages as it was 40 years ago:

Some people have brains, know how to use them and do.

Some people are lazy (rich or poor, smart or stupid) "entitled" and squander whatever they have, doing as little as possible, then blame everyone else for their situation.

And some people are just average (or even below), but do their best, work hard and don't give up.  They tend to do well.

That said, there is an entirely new world of relevant and key technologies that have gone far, far beyond ham radio.  Particularly in the multiple fields of communication.  And most productive, young people put their efforts into them rather than the sideline that is this hobby.

It really doesn't matter - amateur radio has always been in the minority, and gets along just fine.  Most hobbies are like that.

For example, model trains. 

My next door neighbor in CA is a surgeon and has an enormous (to me) train layout designed to drop down from a (large) garage ceiling.  He's WAY younger than me.

I have train sets in CA and CT.  Pretty decent ones (that I take down when not in use - NOTHING like my neighbor's above) that Steven Cryan helped with - look him up.  He's an East Coast train enthusiasts hub for this hobby and professional layout designer/builder.

https://ctrivermuseum.org/events/connecticut-river-museum-speaker-series-steve-cryan-steam-power-of-the-ct-river-valley/

https://www.zip06.com/local-news/20211208/cryan-leads-steam-trains-talk-on-dec-16/

The nearby city of El Segundo CA has a yearly christmas block party near Imperial Blvd. that features an entire front yard of automated trains that almost every young child delights in - while the older teens help set it up and run it.

My kids, now in their late 20's still look forward to putting up our trains, every year, and playing with the layouts, though they've completed college and been out on their own for some time.

So, like ham radio, the model train hobby is still alive and well.  But it's one of MANY, and there are so many interesting choices, today.  So perhaps it's not "THE" hobby anymore.  But it doesn't need to be.

Brian - K6BRN
« Last Edit: July 17, 2022, 11:20:40 AM by K6BRN »
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K6CRC

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Tough to say, but Ham Radio is not aging well. I was into learning code and passing Novice in the early 70s. But, local hams were real a**holes, and could only criticize 'long haired kids'. I ended up getting into cars and building audio equipment instead.

Fast forward to my late 50s.  No longer working full time, I started looking at hobbies. I friend was a ham, and I decided to pick it up again. Having fun, but see the hobby for what it is. Old guys. My two 20s boys are heavy into tech. Neither had the slightest interest in Ham Radio.  None of their friends either. I  went to a successful local club meeting, all old people. Last year, I went to PacificCON, again, all old people, except for some Boy Scouts wandering around.

Not a problem for me, but I think we have to acknowledge the hobby will shrink significantly in the next 10 years. Many other hobbies are going through the same thing. Tube audio, coin and stamp collectors, model railroaders, all have seen little to no interest from young people. Read the 'Fourth Turning' and follow on articles by Neil Howe on coming generational earthquakes. Also 'Bowling Alone'.

ARRL needs to right size if they haven't started. Their goals seem to be to spend $$ on 'saving' spectrum that no one uses.  And, fighting HOAs on antennas, despite the fact that the Hams SIGNED the HOA agreement when they move in. QST is not so good anymore, and the last few books I purchased seem to be just reprinted QST articles.

What happens when equipment makers start leaving the Ham Radio business? I have a IC7300 which is likely more than I will ever need. I cannot see myself ever buying a new rig. How can ICOM survive in Ham Radio? Will Elecraft or StepperIR be around in 5 or 10 years? ARRL may have to get in the equipment business to save the hobby. Will need money stashed away for that purpose.

I will need to see changes in ARRL before I rejoin, as there is no value for my money now.  ARRL has many hard working and dedicated people. But they cannot stop the steamroller of time. They do not appear to be seeing that.

How about if we stop trying to convert young people and just enjoy the Ham Radio hobby? Support clubs and vendors the best we can. Enjoy the people who are still Hams, even if we are all old farts?

And, GET BACK ON THE AIR and TALK to people, OK?
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WA3SKN

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2020 post.  suggest start a new one.

-Mike.
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KC3TEC

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I'm 61 now, and retired due to health issues.
I wanted to get into Amateur radio a long time ago, but a full time job and raising a family took up that time and resources.

I’ve been licensed now for just under 2 years. ( you wouldn't believe the crap many @$$hats sling on me)

I'm a retired industrial electrician and electronics tech.  and by far not a lid.
Now that I have the time, the only thing slowing me down is the costs
So I build my gear or repair them.
Having the skill of visualization is a benefit that should be taught.
It can with reasonably allow a person to " see" what the circuit or antenna will do.

Granted today you have software that can simulate that and show an image for you.
We need to reach out to young people, make thins fun. And above all we need to stop being bitter old farts and talk to these kids.

So I'll ask these questions
How many people out there refuse to talk to a weak signal or poorly executed code?

How many hams get surley or cold at the mention of baofengs?
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K5LXP

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Back in my day, the change from the 30khz to 20kHz 2M bandplan was cause for revolt.  What about all the crystal radio users out there?  Then it was no code, the hobby would die with these wannabe's.  Echolink was blasphemy, not real radio!  Today we have FT8, any mouse clicker can make DXCC.  More V/U digital modes than you can shake a stick at.  That's not real radio, it uses the internet.

Frankly, now that I'm past four decades of being licensed I can honestly say all of the dire predictions of the death of ham radio are all a bunch of crap.  Somehow fishing is a pastime/sport that seems to survive when there are much more practical and efficient ways to have a fish dinner.  Ham radio has a lot of parallels to fishing - costs money, takes time, requires dedication.  Ham radio isn't a young person's hobby with few exceptions - I know, I started young.  Compared to other pursuits it was a lot harder and more expensive.  What kid these days has thousands to spend on a hobby unless their parents foot the bill?  I worked my *arse* off mowing grass, shoveling snow and delivering papers just to acquire the POS boatanchors I had.  I don't think the demographics of ham radio has changed a lot for decades.  Sure, you want to introduce kids to the hobby and it's great when some latch on and make it a passion, but you can't sell that.  As W2NSD would say in his editorials you could print ham radio licenses on cereal boxes and you would still only get so many people that are interested.  Ham radio is different today than when I was a novice but all the elements of learning and enjoyment are still there - if that's what you value.  The good old days are today, and I believe the magic of radio will endure beyond whatever amusements that technology offers as a distraction to people of all ages.

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
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K6BRN

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Mark (K5LXP):

Well said.  The fishing analogy/observation is brilliant.

Brian - K6BRN

(Mouse Clicker Extraordinaire - 65 clicks per minute!)

« Last Edit: December 13, 2022, 07:05:23 PM by K6BRN »
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KC3TEC

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As a matter of perspective I think that we  need to stress the importance of knowing more than one way of accomplishment.
For instance ( as an example)
Sanding a fine piece of walnut or mahogany,
You can lovingly hand sand a piece to a soft finish. Or use a power sander to do it quickly.
Either way can get satisfying results, but what are the pros and cons of it?
Hand sanding can get you a sense of fulfillment and the benifits of a workout.
Power sanding can save time, but its very easy to mess up.

With technology today its the same issue!
You can communicate with a cellphone ( something totally unheard of when I was a child)
But we were taught various code such as semaphore,  morse, sign language, and geo code ( the art of stone stacking, good for simple messages)

Sadly though education tends to enslave itself to technology all too much.
I know we need to evolve with technology but are we relying on it too much?
The same can be said about occupations,
Specializing in one form works too narrow a field and you end up very hard pressed to learn the difference, usually  learning from costly mistakes.
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AC2EU

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Since technology is now ubiquitous, kids seem to take it for granted. Starting with the primitive basics appears to have no allure because they already have/use very sophisticated devices. It's like going back to the stone age for them.

I tried sparking some interest with my grandson by getting an electronics kit, but it was an utter failure. As far as i know, he hasn't even opened it since he got it. I ask if he got into it occasionally, but he makes excuses as well as having other 'obsessions" at the moment.

Nobody had to push him into doing Rubik's cubes. He found that by himself. Kids will gravitate to what fascinates them. Apparently exposure to electronics didn't incite his imagination.

In fact, I had no mentors in radio or electronics growing up , I found these myself as well.
In other words, to use a hackneyed phrase; "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink".

K6BRN

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(snip)

I tried sparking some interest with my grandson by getting an electronics kit, but it was an utter failure. As far as i know, he hasn't even opened it since he got it. I ask if he got into it occasionally, but he makes excuses as well as having other 'obsessions" at the moment..

In fact, I had no mentors in radio or electronics growing up , I found these myself as well.
In other words, to use a hackneyed phrase; "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink".

James (AC2EU):

There have always been the "Weird Kids", like me and perhaps you, who'd spend their spare time taking apart various appliances for amusement and playing with radios and (later) microprocessors.

They still exist, gravitate towards each other and tend to go into technical career paths.

But they've always been relatively rare.  And this personality trait is not necessarity carried on from father to son. 

My son likes working on cars and motorcycles with me (as long as they're something special) but has little interest in tech hobbies.  Instead he's an investment analyst, and a pretty good one.  We did little tech projects together when he was in elementary school and he enjoyed it.  But it was the world of finance/investment/entreprunership  that caught his imagination.  And he showed this strong interest in high school and won several awards for his projects, later graduating from a college known for this.

And I'm a nerd engineer.  Ooops!

Well, at least he has a passion for his work.  Many never find that.

But the young engineers I helped train before my second retirement just over a year ago were right there with me:  "Lets take it apart, figure out how it works and make it better!"  I had a special lab built just to support and explore this.  They produced some great results - some very unexpected and creative - and we put them into practical deliveries to customers.  To the consternation of some of the "old guard".  "Hey, we TRIED that.  It will never work!".  Guess again - it did.

In short, it was a lot of fun.  And yes - perhaps 15% of the newbies just didn't have the hands-on talent and interest they needed for success.  But that's always been true.

As for Amateur Radio - once it was a cutting edge technology.  But that hasn't been true for half a century.  The current "cutting edge" FTDX-101 hybrid receiver technology and Flex-6600/IC-7610 direct digital sampling technologies were in use in my industry way back in the early 1990's.  The price point has dropped, but the tech is largely the same.

On amateur radio statistics - perhaps we should be looking at two key metrics:  1.  The percentage of total population with a license, plotted over time, and 2. The percentage of license base turnover (permanently cancelled licenses - not upgrades/vanity changes + new ones, i.e. "churn") over time.  That would tell us a lot about the health of the hobby.

But no matter.  Good or bad.  I'm going to enjoy it while I can.

Brian - K6BRN
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AC7CW

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An anti-aging forum would be more useful than threads about growing the hobby.

The ARRL could sponsor maker clubs and have a ham station available. I saw a maker club in California that had all sorts of electronics projects and a very nice ham station with a yagi on the roof. Kids were there every day and some probably took up the hobby. They had workbenches, their own cloud computer [seems a contradiction of terms but there it was] and engineers leading them in building projects that interested them. It was sponsored by the local tech industrial giants who feared a shortage of competent workers.

Repeatedly asking a bunch of aging introverts to grow the hobby seems like a dead end street, no? Clubs could have clubhouses with a station, I've seen that but the cranks that ran the club were impossible pretty much and it was inaccessible to anybody without a car anyhow...
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Novice 1958, 20WPM Extra now... (and get off my lawn)

K6BRN

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Repeatedly asking a bunch of aging introverts to grow the hobby seems like a dead end street, no?

Good point, Max. 

Luckily we're not ALL old, sour introverts.

The FTx digital modes and remote operation has some attraction for Techno-Youth because it IS computer-centric and is a more or less modern digital comms mode.  Remote operation is basically Command, Control and Telemetry, which is popular in the current Robotics push for STEM.

CW on the other hand is an interesting piece of history, but not a lot of young operators I've seen have a strong interest in it.

While some may argue that CW takes much more operating skill to do well (it DOES) than digital modes, it's the modes themselves that offer the opportunity for evolution into much more with the help and support of a newer crowd.  This is one of the "gifts" left by Joe Taylor and his team.  If and only if we're smart enough to realise this and pick up on it.

1.  Improved converational digital modes (already in work, but attacked by some hams)
2.  HF Command, Control and Telemetry to remote sites not served by more conventional means (yes, I know this requires some regulation changes - progress always does)
3.  HF end-to end real time voice and data links with automated power control and relay, possibly applied to comms nets.  Very military/emergency applicable as well.

A great deal is possible when we consider moving forward from the traditional operating model.

But change is difficult for many.

Brian - K6BRN
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AC2EU

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Quote
James (AC2EU):

There have always been the "Weird Kids", like me and perhaps you, who'd spend their spare time taking apart various appliances for amusement and playing with radios and (later) microprocessors.

They still exist, gravitate towards each other and tend to go into technical career paths.

Yes, I was "that kid", and still am for the most part. I am "compelled" to know how things work!
The truth is that you can't really fix something unless you know how it works. Yet many dive into the abyss anyway.

My son liked to work on muscle cars, and fancied himself as a 'good mechanic" because he could change brake pads.
He never liked to delve into the details of much of anything. So, what you say about technical traits not necessarily passed father to son is very true!
He was more of a 'people person" so he started  medical transport company, and yes , did his own basic mechanical work on the cars and vans.

I like the "maker" concept for promoting various technical hobbies, even amateur radio. The maker events are non specific , so if you bring amateur radio, there is a wider audience.

KC3TEC

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When I trained apprentices in 3 phase we would take a burned out motor apart visually inspect and meter all the windings, and mark on a graphic chart which winding was open or shorted.
Using those results we would diagnose what the cause of the failure was.
Overload, phase imbalance, vibration, power surge, thermal runaway,  insulation breakdown,  and bearing failure.
Most of the bosses didn't care about that, their only concern was getting production back up.
But I left a bunch of highly skilled journeymen in charge when I retired.
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K6BRN

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But I left a bunch of highly skilled journeymen in charge when I retired.

FB!  That's really the best we can do.

Brian - K6BRN
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